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How do you read Frame Data

ll Nooby ll

To Live is to Die
Here's a link that talks about MK9 frame data.

Basically most games run at 60 frames per second (fps). So if a move is six frames, which is generally the fastest attacking move in MK9, it comes out at 6/60 of a second. Or 1/10 if you simplify.

What game are you talking about specifically? This can help me explain this better since some "rules" can be different from game to game.

On the topic of "You HAVE to know frames to be good" is a little controversial. Some old school SF2 players don't really read frames and play by feel or through trial and error (this move didn't work in this given situation, so I'm not going to do that same move again) basically because there was no way to measure that type of thing. And then there are some who treat frame data like the bible and will never do anything that doesn't seem right by the frame data calculations, even when that thing might be a valid tactic.

Basically it's not knowing the frame data that makes you a good player. But knowing what your options are in every given situation, and having quick and good decision making skills and execution skills.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
frame disadvantage: see above, say a move is -10 on block, a move 10 frames or faster must be used to punish.

advantage: a +9 move on block/hit, if the attacker uses a move faster than 9 frames it is a frame trap and cannot be avoided, only blocked.

neutral: no advantage or disadvantage, where the faster attack from either player will usually win (excluding hitboxes that can avoid/counter those moves and what not)
 

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
Frame data explains the start up, block advantage, and recovery of moves you do.

Lets take a look at a move like flashes lightning uppercut.

Note: im taking these numbers from the wiki, if they are incorrect, blame the wiki. The explanations of what they mean are whats important.

Startup: 6 frames. This means that it takes 6 frames (6/60ths or 1/10th of a second) for the move to go active after you input it. All moves are measured in this type of data format (number of frames).

Hit advantage: 58 frames. This means that if you hit your opponent with this move, there is a 58 frame window (essentially 1 second) where you can move around on the screen, and your opponent can't. For this specific move, it is because you have knocked them down. So you can move for a second while they are on their back to reposition yourself.

Block advantage: -17. This means that if your opponent blocks this move, there is a 17 frame window where they can move, and you can't.

What do these three things mean to you?

Frame data tells you whether a move is "safe" or "punishable"

Safe means if you do a move, and immediately hold block, no matter what your opponent does, you can defend against their attack.

Punishable is the opposite. If you do a move and immediately hold block, you still can get hit by their follow up attack.


Lets go back to lightning uppercut. Since its block advantage is -17, if your opponent does any move with less startup than that gap, you will not be able to block, and therefore "punished".


Further, frame data tells you what move will hit first if two moves are input at the same time. If you input flashes lightning uppercut (6 frame startup) at the same time your opponent does a move with a 10 frame startup, you will hit first because your move is active 4 frames faster.

Those are the basics, hope it helps!
 
Here's a link that talks about MK9 frame data.

Basically most games run at 60 frames per second (fps). So if a move is six frames, which is generally the fastest attacking move in MK9, it comes out at 6/60 of a second. Or 1/10 if you simplify.

What game are you talking about specifically? This can help me explain this better since some "rules" can be different from game to game.

On the topic of "You HAVE to know frames to be good" is a little controversial. Some old school SF2 players don't really read frames and play by feel or through trial and error (this move didn't work in this given situation, so I'm not going to do that same move again) basically because there was no way to measure that type of thing. And then there are some who treat frame data like the bible and will never do anything that doesn't seem right by the frame data calculations, even when that thing might be a valid tactic.

Basically it's not knowing the frame data that makes you a good player. But knowing what your options are in every given situation, and having quick and good decision making skills and execution skills.
thank man that link help alot
 

input

Noob
Hey guys, I seem to be a little confused about frames when it comes to block disadvantage. Just want to make sure I'm understanding all this correctly.

So for example, since Kabal's F+3 is -6 on block, can I go for a 7 frame D+3 immediately afterwards, or will my opponent be able to do a 7 frame D+3 (using lets say Sub Zero) before I can? If the latter, will my only option be to block (if I'm the Kabal player of course)?
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Think of it like this:
If I do an attack that is a 6 frame starter and is -7 on block, the opposing opponent needs either a 7 frame starting attack or lower to punish you. Look at the injustice frame data and make sense of it.
All the reading and hours I sent trying to make sense of frame counting for the past year was just answered in one to two sentences!!! Thank very much Fox, BTW great showing at Civil War.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Hey guys, I seem to be a little confused about frames when it comes to block disadvantage. Just want to make sure I'm understanding all this correctly.

So for example, since Kabal's F+3 is -6 on block, can I go for a 7 frame D+3 immediately afterwards, or will my opponent be able to do a 7 frame D+3 (using lets say Sub Zero) before I can? If the latter, will my only option be to block (if I'm the Kabal player of course)?
If a move is negative on block, it means that the opponent can act that many frames before you do.

For example, if your F3 is -6 on block, that means that any move 6 frames or faster will punish you, while anything slower can be blocked. So in the example of the 7 frame D3, it will NOT punish you, but it leaves you with 1 frame before the move hits, and while I don't know much about MK9, if you don't have a 1 frame parry, then you will have to block.
 

input

Noob
@Fromundaman Much obliged for the explanation! Are you sure my opponent couldn't punish my D+3 after my blocked f+3, in the example I gave? How many frames does it take to crouch block or to jump over the opponent, since I couldn't find info on this?
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
@Fromundaman Much obliged for the explanation! Are you sure my opponent couldn't punish my D+3 after my blocked f+3, in the example I gave? How many frames does it take to crouch block or to jump over the opponent, since I couldn't find info on this?
I think you may not have understood me.

If your opponent tries to punish you with a 7 frame move when you are -6 on block, then they will not punish you since their move has more startup frames than you do recovery frames.

That said, if you are -6 (AKA have 6 recovery frames) and are trying to follow it up with a 7 frame D3, then it will take 6 frames to recover from the first move then 7 more for the D3 to start up, meaning the opponent has 6+7 (AKA 13) frames to hit you with something before your move connects.
 

input

Noob
If your opponent tries to punish you with a 7 frame move when you are -6 on block, then they will not punish you since their move has more startup frames than you do recovery frames.
But don't you have to take into consideration the amount of frames it takes to go into crouch block to not get punished with D+3?

That said, if you are -6 (AKA have 6 recovery frames) and are trying to follow it up with a 7 frame D3, then it will take 6 frames to recover from the first move then 7 more for the D3 to start up, meaning the opponent has 6+7 (AKA 13) frames to hit you with something before your move connects.
Ahh.. I see. That's what I thought people were referring to. It wasn't clear to me till now.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
But don't you have to take into consideration the amount of frames it takes to go into crouch block to not get punished with D+3?
I honestly couldn't tell you as it varies from game to game, and I am not a MK player.
However, I can guarantee that switching block will take at most 1 frame.