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General Discussion About Zoning, Footsies and The Neutral Game

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
There's not too much I can say that hasn't already been said or has been said better. So what I want to accomplish is basically compile a bunch of links to explanations and tutorials to help you understand what "footsies" and "the neutral game" actually are and how to take advantage of them. A lot of the links are referring to specific games, but can be applied to basically any fighting game. I want to use this thread as a platform to not only inform others, but also to discuss and ask questions.

What Are Footsies?
Sucking less at Fighting Games: Footsies

If you already know what the term means, feel free to skip those and get right down to practical applications. Each of these articles covers three or four specific tactics which you can integrate into your gameplan to make it a little more solid:

Street Fighter Footsies Handbook, Chapter 1 - Footsies 101
Street Fighter Footsies Handbook, Chapter 2 - jab/short feints
Street Fighter Footsies Handbook, Chapter 3 - how to use the corner
Street Fighter Footsies Handbook, Chapter 4 - baiting supers
Street Fighter Footsies Handbook, Chapter 5 - jumping without dying


*The Importance of Walking Forward by @Protagonist_1
*Injustice Neutral Game Discussion by @Protagonist_1
*First Attack Series: Whiff Punishing



Footsies and the Neutral Game (in SF4):



Footsies in Injustice 2 and general footsie knowledge for NRS games by SonicFox:



*What is Zoning exactly?
*Zoning, easy to learn hard to master
*Controlling Space


2D Zoning Tutorial:

 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
We're going to have a lot of new members in the coming weeks. Many are beginning to join already. This will be a great thread for people to read up on.
More or less the reason I made the thread. I feel these 3 aspects in general are not only the most important things in fighting games, but also the most misunderstood. Knowledge is power.
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
great thread, theres some must watch videos in here forthose looking to learn like juicebox's footsies explanation
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Nice thread as usual Juggs, but I have a small problem with these examples. They are mostly SF based. I find SF and MK to be different when it comes to the mechanics. SF is strongly based around normal's, whereas MK is based around strings(outside of d4 and d1). It's easier to react to whiff punishing in MK than SF imo, due to strings.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Nice thread as usual Juggs, but I have a small problem with these examples. They are mostly SF based. I find SF and MK to be different when it comes to the mechanics. SF is strongly based around normal's, whereas MK is based around strings(outside of d4 and d1). It's easier to react to whiff punishing in MK than SF imo, due to strings.
Which is one of the problems with our community. We have very few tutorials or content in general for our games, especially MK. But the concept(s) of the neutral game, footsies, and zoning are universally shared, just applied differently. If you can find some specific examples in MK or Injustice, feel free to post them and I'll add them to the OP.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Which is one of the problems with our community. We have very few tutorials or content in general for our games, especially MK. But the concept(s) of the neutral game, footsies, and zoning are universally shared, just applied differently. If you can find some specific examples in MK or Injustice, feel free to post them and I'll add them to the OP.
Trust me, I've looked and the only video I could find is the Brady one you posted. It's a shame really. Someone should get on that.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
Nice thread as usual Juggs, but I have a small problem with these examples. They are mostly SF based. I find SF and MK to be different when it comes to the mechanics. SF is strongly based around normal's, whereas MK is based around strings(outside of d4 and d1). It's easier to react to whiff punishing in MK than SF imo, due to strings.
It's still a spacing game based around whiff punishing. therefore footsie examples used in street fighter may still apply to MK fundamentally.

I agree though, there aren't enough examples of MK at an educational level. Someone should make some, maybe ill try :D
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
It's still a spacing game based around whiff punishing. therefore footsie examples used in street fighter may still apply to MK fundamentally.

I agree though, there aren't enough examples of MK at an educational level. Someone should make some, maybe ill try :D
I'll admit that my post is kind of sloppy lol. Nothing I was trying to say came across clearly. Anyway, if you watch juice's video he even states you really can't react to whiff punishing in SF. It's more so baiting and making a read. I feel like it is different in MK because you can easily react due to strings instead of quick normal's. It's much easier to walk back and react to a string with 3-4 kicks that they have committed to lol.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Trust me, I've looked and the only video I could find is the Brady one you posted. It's a shame really. Someone should get on that.
I have a feeling it will be more prevalent with MKX. With content in general, a lot of streams have been popping up lately.
 

Saint Op Omen

Savagely beating his super-ego with his id...
I have a feeling it will be more prevalent with MKX. With content in general, a lot of streams have been popping up lately.
Yeah I have seen a ton of people starting coverage even now and stating to do all sorts of tech vids and such...If two or three of them start at the basics like this I think they would get a lot of traction...
 

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
People will still cry about my zoning and my character will most likley be nerfed early because "spam is for fagz."

Ugh... I'm already prepaing myself for the incoming hate and nerf demands :(
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
People will still cry about my zoning and my character will most likley be nerfed early because "spam is for fagz."

Ugh... I'm already prepaing myself for the incoming hate and nerf demands :(
We really can only regulate on TYM. It's up to NRS to not listen to the crying masses.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The best way to become a complete player is having an understandment of neutral game, when you're good playing footsies or Zoning the game is taken into another level that people who often don't know what's happening will often say "they're taking too long to attack each other" while people that knows what's happening can see the match for its awesomeness

One of the things that i enjoy in street fighter a lot, is that if you dominate footsies, and you're fighting someone equally skilled the game will narrow down to who often commits the most mistakes, one single mistake can change from footsies to mixup and end the game from there, the problem is getting to that change, the neutral game is really fun.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
The best way to become a complete player is having an understandment of neutral game, when you're good playing footsies or Zoning the game is taken into another level that people who often don't know what's happening will often say "they're taking too long to attack each other" while people that knows what's happening can see the match for its awesomeness

One of the things that i enjoy in street fighter a lot, is that if you dominate footsies, and you're fighting someone equally skilled the game will narrow down to who often commits the most mistakes, one single mistake can change from footsies to mixup and end the game from there, the problem is getting to that change, the neutral game is really fun.
I think Momochi's understanding of footsies and zoning is really remarkable. It's almost like watching art when he plays, so godlike!
 

Montanx

Thats why they call this thing bloodsport, kid.
Good reads. I remember playing SF2 and sf2t and using these concepts. In fact I credit myself for inventing footsies. By that I mean the actual word "footsies" came out of my mouth when telling friends what I was doing while poking and spacing myself around them.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Good reads. I remember playing SF2 and sf2t and using these concepts. In fact I credit myself for inventing footsies. By that I mean the actual word "footsies" came out of my mouth when telling friends what I was doing while poking and spacing myself around them.
I dunno about all that, but footsies have definitely been around since the beginning. To me it's the most fun part of fighters.
 

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
Anyway to improve reactions? Probably not, but just a question. Seems like you're either born with it or you're not.
 
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EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
Good reads. I remember playing SF2 and sf2t and using these concepts. In fact I credit myself for inventing footsies. By that I mean the actual word "footsies" came out of my mouth when telling friends what I was doing while poking and spacing myself around them.
If you're not 40 years old at least, then I"m not going to believe that at all. Not to be a dick, but LBSH.
 

EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
Anyway to improve reactions? Probably not, but just a question. Seems like you either born with it or you're not.
Of course you can improve your reaction, unless you're like 60 years old, BUT it's going to be tedious work. I would strongly suggest playing against AI and not worry about anything, but trying to react to what the AI does. Start off on the easiest difficulty so they do things slowly and progress from there.
 

Montanx

Thats why they call this thing bloodsport, kid.
If you're not 40 years old at least, then I"m not going to believe that at all. Not to be a dick, but LBSH.
Im 33. Played SF2 the day it came into the arcade as a little kid. By the time the snes version (aka best thing to ever happen) came out I had already been saying the word footsies. It was just a way to describe the use of ducking light and medium kicks to control spacing, since they jab their feet out all quick like. As a little kid and the internet not being a thing yet, of course I thought it was my creation.

I could also say that I went to sunnyvale golfland (the arcade mecca of street fighter, near san jose) and talked about it with guys who may or may not have grown up to be pros (John Choi, an early pro pioneer. I must have missed Valle tho.). But nah I wont say all that, no point, especially since I suck now.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I definitely feel like there will be a lot more content and tutorial type stuff for MKX. I'll be doing stuff, Brady and REO will, CDjr will, and a whole host of others. We need as much content as possible imo.