Tech - Swarm Queen Fuzzy Guard and Wakeup Stuffer

[KillaGthug4Life]

She sacrifices some damage but I fully believe that this is worth it. For a f22 or f11 or any combo with swarm in it, D'vorah can do nj2, swarm (causes knock down) another swarm (forcing them to block), and then run f22. It's a fuzzy guard that is very difficult to block, I've tested. She loses about 5-7% of damage for the pressure and setup after.

Swarm is +22 on block so her f22 is a frame trap, f11 frame trap, b12 frame trap. Pretty much any string she follows up with is a frame trap.

Also, I was trying to show that she was able to block quick enough and scout out the armored wakeup (beats teleports as well as Subzero's slide). But! Some-frekan-how the Swarm blew up the armored wakeup entirely, no clue how this works. I've only done it a few times but hell, if she can blow up wakeups with Swarm then damn..

"I know you like it but it drives you insane"

@Blind_Ducky
@deg222
@Vak Phoenix
@Krayzie
@ChatterBox
@Zoidberg747
@Under_The_Mayo

Sorry to all the other D'vorah players I didn't tag *cough cough* RunwayMafia *cough cough*

 

[Vak Phoenix]

This one is pleased

 

[delbuster]

basically some moves that come from the ground can OTG. they hit before they can wake up (even w/ ex moves), but they can block. hellfire scorpion has a hellfire move that does something similar, and is unblockable, so he technically has guaranteed 6% (or 9% with ex) off some of his knockdowns.

anyway one thing i dont know, does it beat delay wakeup

 

[BenGmanUk]

Better to end in NJP, b21~swarm rather than NJP, swarm no?

 

[Take$$$]

Better to end in NJP, b21~swarm rather than NJP, swarm no?

Is b21 a hard knockdown? Don't remember.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Is b21 a hard knockdown? Don't remember.

It is yep.

 

[Take$$$]

It is yep.

Huh, I wonder what my problem with b21 swarm was then...

Edit: I remember. When i was practicing this It just felt like njp swarm was more consistent than b21 swarm since b21 needs the right height if swarm is gonna come out at the right time, whereas njp swarm is pretty straightforward and hard to mess up. Plus I think b21 might push them even further away, but don't trust me on that since I can't get to my ps4 right now.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I usually walk forward slightly after the 212~swarm and the NJP to make it connect.

 

[chemist4hire]

The fuzzy guard seeming difficult I think is an illusion. If you try to overhead while they are blocking the swarm during its active frames, they can block the overhead while ducking because the engine does not allow for unblockables. You have to time the overhead to hit just as swarm is ending, at that point they can stand block it. Most people don't know that, so they try to stand block during lifts active frames and the get lifted or hit out of lift by the f2. Swarm gimmicks seem strong now but when people figure it out, this may not be such a good idea. I noticed during toryuken, many players were allowing HoneyBee and PimPimJim to get away with things that were not true block jaiiling strings and they ate a ton of chip damage for it.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Better to end in NJP, b21~swarm rather than NJP, swarm no?

It does the same damage as b21 and is just another setup for knockdown fun. B21 Swarm DOES NOT stuff wakeups.

The fuzzy guard seeming difficult I think is an illusion. If you try to overhead while they are blocking the swarm during its active frames, they can block the overhead while ducking because the engine does not allow for unblockables. You have to time the overhead to hit just as swarm is ending, at that point they can stand block it. Most people don't know that, so they try to stand block during lifts active frames and the get lifted or hit out of lift by the f2. Swarm gimmicks seem strong now but when people figure it out, this may not be such a good idea. I noticed during toryuken, many players were allowing HoneyBee and PimPimJim to get away with things that were not true block jaiiling strings and they ate a ton of chip damage for it.

True, blockable yes but timing is tighter going from low to high, less frame room for error between the two strings. I agree with you, the gimmicks we get away with now are crazy. If we use any string and end it with swarm on block, they can jump over and jump in punish.

 

[mountlover]

same thing can be done by ending a combo with 113, swarm vortex. It's not nearly as hard to block as it looks (my training partner caught on after a couple matches and never got hit by it again), and can be beaten by armor. If you get an advantageous hard knockdown, it's better to just swarm vortex and block. If they get hit, you go confirm the combo. If they block, you go in. If they delay the wakeup, you go in. If they armor, you block and punish.

 

[delbuster]

can use the hard knockdown string instead

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

can use the hard knockdown string instead

I know, this is just another knock down setup that works as well. Also, on that corner combo you can do f44, f44, 21u3 airthrow for mas damage. Nice video though

 

[delbuster]

f44 f44 21u3 does do a lot of damage, but you missed the point of the video, which is to get a DB1 on their wakeup

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

So in venemous in the corner this is easy meterless. 212, F44, 212 puddle.

Midscreen, 212 EX puddle, NJP, Run, B21 Puddle.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So in venemous in the corner this is easy meterless. 212, F44, 212 puddle.

Midscreen, 212 EX puddle, NJP, Run, B21 Puddle.

Is there anyway to restand off of the puddle though? Because otherwise you can just do the restand and make sure they cant wakeup at all...

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Is there anyway to restand off of the puddle though? Because otherwise you can just do the restand and make sure they cant wakeup at all...

What do you mean? Restand after the EX puddle after 212? Or the blocked puddle on wakeup?

 

[Zoidberg747]

What do you mean? Restand after the EX puddle after 212? Or the blocked puddle on wakeup?

Yeah I mean assuming the wakeup stuffer(puddle) hits, can you restand off of that?

Personally when I corner someone I just go into 50/50s, maybe a throw every once in a while.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Yeah I mean assuming the wakeup stuffer(puddle) hits, can you restand off of that?

Personally when I corner someone I just go into 50/50s, maybe a throw every once in a while.

Due to how low the puddle hits, you can not follow up with any other attack. However, the idea is that they will block the puddle because it stuffs their wakeup (testing, B21puddle and 212puddle both wont let mileena roll on wakeup), so you can use the +22. I like it because spray restand leaves you at most at maybe +16, and with distance so you have to run to close in. +22 gives you more to work with, even if not guaranteed. Like we saw in the video, they can armor wakeup but you recover fast enough to block if you see that coming.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Due to how low the puddle hits, you can not follow up with any other attack. However, the idea is that they will block the puddle because it stuffs their wakeup (testing, B21puddle and 212puddle both wont let mileena roll on wakeup), so you can use the +22. I like it because spray restand leaves you at most at maybe +16, and with distance so you have to run to close in. +22 gives you more to work with, even if not guaranteed. Like we saw in the video, they can armor wakeup but you recover fast enough to block if you see that coming.

You can actually do d4 ovi after a regular puddle, but it doesnt restand.

I can see use for this midscreen but in the corner you shouldnt be far away from them and should get a free f22 or b1 after spray making it a true 50/50

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

You can actually do d4 ovi after a regular puddle, but it doesnt restand.

I can see use for this midscreen but in the corner you shouldnt be far away from them and should get a free f22 or b1 after spray making it a true 50/50

Yeah, but the regular puddle hitting them after the 212 puddle / B21 puddle setup doesn't allow you do connect even with a D1. Check it out, they simple don't bounce at all. And I agree with the corner spray giving you a true 50/50, but it is open to human error. If you hit F2 even slightly late, they can armor. But if you do this setup and they block the puddle, you definitely get it.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

@Zoidberg747
@RunwayMafia
@Blind_Ducky
@Vak Phoenix
@HoneyBee


Continuing the theme of arguing for the merits of this setup for Venemous, even if not as good as spray in most aspects, you can take meter into account here.

Spray and Puddle both build 6% of a bar when used, and builds another 7.5% on block. The F112 block string builds 22%. And the meter you get from the activation of a special is not applied in advance to the EX version. So, simplifying the idea here.

212, F44, F44 Spray = 33% damage / 6% meter
adding F112 on block into EX spray builds another 22%
total meter = 28%

212, F44, 1, 212 Puddle = 30% (2% from the blocked Puddle) / 13.5% meter
adding F112 on block into EX spray builds another 22%
total meter = 35.5%

So with only 3% damage difference, but with higher meter gain,
The scenario is that you hit them with 212 in the corner, and the match is nearly over.
If you have less than one bar of meter, and you eye it see you're probably not going to reach a full bar with only building a quarter of a bar...
You can follow your combo's F44 with another 212 puddle, and if they block, you're attack leading up to EX Spray will be over 1/3 of a bar, possibly breaking you to enough meter for the EX to come out and chip to death for the win.

Cons---
If they have armor, they can wake up out of the puddle.
If it hits them (even stuffing wakeup), you can NOT follow up, but it'll still do 8%

Long story short, if you think you can get them to block the wakeup-stuffing puddle, and they can't/won't armor it, you can do this to ensure you have enough meter to chip out with EX Spray. I think I way overexplained this. But you guys know how I get with this stuff...