Frame Data Algebra: How to check and find frame data you don't know

[DarthArma]

Framiest Frame data frame wise?!?!?!?!

This question has been brought up a few times, so im gonna answer how I know this once and for all. Not saying that NOBODY ON HERE KNOWS THIS, but I think there are alot of people out there, especially casual players (nothing wrong with that ) who might not know how we know certain unlisted frame data. Get your pencils out!!!

Chapter 2
(this is chapter 2 because if you don't understand how frame data works, this wont make sense to you)


First thing you want to do is set the AI options to reversal and pick an attack. (make sure the dummy is set to block unless you want to see the frame advantage on hit) The most ideal one is lex's CC because its 6 frames, however keep in mind that it does have a travel time so it is only 6 frames if your right next to him. For strings such as 112x, you might need to pick a different character and wake up attack. From what I gathered, 112xxCallBat is between plus 15 and plus 23 on block. I need to test with another move, but it's kinda pointless to be splitting hairs at that point with that much block advantage.

So anyway lets get into this,


the missing frame data is "X" such as the batmans 12xxTrait (To call out the mechanical bats) or ANYTHING xxTrait.


X+13 frame move (batmans stand 3) = lex CC (6 frame move) . What do you think "X" in this equation equals. Equal signifies that the move traded. 12xxTrait+ stand 3 will trade with CC everytime as long as you do it FRAME PERFECT! there is human error when performing your side so keep that in mind.

Further test our theory ...


X+ (batmans F2 headbutt) 14 frame move > Lex C C(6 frame). The Greater than sign actually signifies that the "greater move lost to the other, and thats because the "greater" move has MORE start up frames. This move will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER beat the CC in this situation. so its safe to mark it with the ">" symbol

Let's keep going...

X+ 12 frame move (b2 Batarang swipe) < Lex CC (6 frames) The lesser move now beats the CC. Less signifying that it has LESS start up frames. This move will always BEAT CC as long as you get it frame perfect!!! PERFECT!!!!!! no room for a single frame of error!


From this Data, we know that Batmans 12xxTrait (call bats) is plus 7!!!! DING DING DING!!!!!

Apply it to anything else but be careful of variables such as spacing, or incorrect LISTED frame data.

You can use this equation to find out the frame data on everything thats missing in the game, or anything that you might find "Questionable"

This is how people use to do(and in some games still do) to find out frame data before it was handed to us.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@GGA Dizzy is a big proponent of this.

 

[coolwhip]

Yeah, I originally estimated 12 cb as +7 as I mentioned in @Jaiyson's status update. Following the same formula, I think B11 cb is either +3 or +4 (probably the latter), and as you said, 112 cb is well over +10 but I don't think it's as high as +23, though you're right, it doesn't matter since you can follow it up with pretty much anything.

 

[9.95]

Algebra?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Algebra?

Playing fighting games at high level is all a huge pile of álgebra.

I like Numbers, so i can live with it

Edit: i hate auto correctly...bahhhh.

 

[Dizzy]

Frame data is love. Frame data is life.

(P.S. I like testing with Flash's uppercut more as it seems to more reliably hit on frame 7 than lex's reversal)

 

[9.95]

Playing fighting games at high level is all a huge pile of álgebra.

I like Numbers, so i can live with it

Edit: i hate auto correctly...bahhhh.

I'd willingly cut my left nut off before I do algebra for a fighting game.

Which is why I play softball competitively and not fighting games. Plus, if someone tries to rage quit softball, I can chase them with a bat. LOL

 

[chemist4hire]

@DarthArma I know you imply this, but you may want to implicitly state how you select the frame data constant you use as the follow up attack. For example, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is losing out to the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with less frames. Conversely, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is beating out the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with high frames.

Also state dummy conditions. For these cases I would be using the training dummy with block off and reversal on.

 

[Rip Torn]

If you want to find out if a move is plus on block or negative on block, set the cpu to jump and block always. When he touches the ground, hit them with the attack you want to know is +/-. Immidiately hold up after the attack is blocked by the cpu. Now you will both neutral jump. Whoever leaves the ground first is at frame advantage. This is good for finding out frame data in the +1,+2,-1,-2 range where reversal specials are too slow to gather data.

 

[DarthArma]

 

[vreinaldo30]

Thanks for the info!, and now that I catch and actual frame data topic, I just want to ask you guys If you have find out that injustice has the "same", "in-game, recovery frame indicator" that SSF4 has? The thing is that I don't know for sure if the indicator shows the recovery, but some times I have used that when I'm practicing the punish of moves with few frames of difference.
If someone has talked about this in the forums, please point me in the direction to dig s little bit more on that.
For reference of what I'm talking about look a this:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2009/feb/21/sf4-game-assistance-link-combos/
And look for the same indicator on injustice (not orange... But silver).

 

[DarthArma]

@DarthArma I know you imply this, but you may want to implicitly state how you select the frame data constant you use as the follow up attack. For example, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is losing out to the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with less frames. Conversely, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is beating out the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with high frames.

Also state dummy conditions. For these cases I would be using the training dummy with block off and reversal on.

When you go to AI options and switch reversal on, it automatically switches the dummy to block. But ill add that in there

 

[9.95]

@DarthArma I know you imply this, but you may want to implicitly state how you select the frame data constant you use as the follow up attack. For example, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is losing out to the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with less frames. Conversely, if you find that the "X" attack plus follow up frame data constant attack is beating out the reversal, you have to select a frame data constant attack with high frames.

Also state dummy conditions. For these cases I would be using the training dummy with block off and reversal on.

 

[DarkSlayerSmith]

players from my country in MK9,TTT2,USF4 or any fighting game be like...

dont give a rat's ass about frame data,they say its too complicated and rely only on basis and fundamentals.now imagine if I tell them you need Algebra to know it...they would quit it in a heart beat,and shank me in the process.
@Eddy Wang explain why!?

 

[Skeezer12]

To be honest , arma i didnt think you knew frame data .

 

[9.95]

players from my country in MK9,TTT2,USF4 or any fighting game be like...

dont give a rat's ass about frame data,they say its too complicated and rely only on basis and fundamentals.now imagine if I tell them you need Algebra to know it...they would quit it in a heart beat,and shank me in the process.
@Eddy Wang explain why!?

Honestly, I hear you completely. I know I was told in school (eons ago) that I would need Math in real life someday, and it's true, I use geometry EVERY DAY at my job.

I never IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION thought that, in order to enjoy a video game, I'd need algebra.

 

[DarkSlayerSmith]

Honestly, I hear you completely. I know I was told in school (eons ago) that I would need Math in real life someday, and it's true, I use geometry EVERY DAY at my job.

I never IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION thought that, in order to enjoy a video game, I'd need algebra.

math is everywere.... even in porno!

 

[chemist4hire]

Thanks for the info!, and now that I catch and actual frame data topic, I just want to ask you guys If you have find out that injustice has the "same", "in-game, recovery frame indicator" that SSF4 has? The thing is that I don't know for sure if the indicator shows the recovery, but some times I have used that when I'm practicing the punish of moves with few frames of difference.
If someone has talked about this in the forums, please point me in the direction to dig s little bit more on that.
For reference of what I'm talking about look a this:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2009/feb/21/sf4-game-assistance-link-combos/
And look for the same indicator on injustice (not orange... But silver).

I remember that SF4 link assistance indicator was proven to not to be indicative of anything. Someone took video of it, and it flashes across the lifebar even if you dont attack.

 

[TKB]

Algebra?

LOL

 

[DarthArma]

To be honest , arma i didnt think you knew frame data .

I know all of wonder womans frame data, despite how free KDZ makes me look in that unfavorable match up. He gets a good read on me in both the games we play, so its very annoying playing him. That's why you were having such a frustrating time against me. Does this make you feel a little better? lol

 

[fr stack]

my head hurts now

 

[DarthArma]

my head hurts now

write it down, it makes it easier to understand.

 

[Skeezer12]

I know all of wonder womans frame data, despite how free KDZ makes me look in that unfavorable match up. He gets a good read on me in both the games we play, so its very annoying playing him. That's why you were having such a frustrating time against me. Does this make you feel a little better? lol

I wasnt fustrated . I dont care how many times you played kdz to be honest . But you were trying to mash buttons and jump out of hit . Also after +4 you would do a d2 . But do whatever works for you guy .

 

[fr stack]

write it down, it makes it easier to understand.

bare with me !!
say i wanna find the cancel adv of walking corpse , i set lex to reversal corpse charge and do say f1 WCC (grundys low attack) , if i get hit before i can block its minus basically ? if i can get a d2 out it would be plus ??
forgive me maths just seems like work to me so im trying to dumb it down!

 

[Eddy Wang]

players from my country in MK9,TTT2,USF4 or any fighting game be like...

dont give a rat's ass about frame data,they say its too complicated and rely only on basis and fundamentals.now imagine if I tell them you need Algebra to know it...they would quit it in a heart beat,and shank me in the process.
@Eddy Wang explain why!?

Do i really need to explain why? Remember when in the SSF4 tournament i was in tie with Don and the next one who would win a set would advance on the winners?

I remember of listening Sergio saying: "Fuck Frame Data"
I was like: "lel"

Its just that they didn't grew up with it, and i don't think that is going to change now unless of course if someday they decide to get more in depth in any fighting game.

We got lucky actually because Gildo Introduced me this site, and by the time i spent around her i actually enjoyed and did became a more educated player.

Its happening, some players from the MK Titans community do know how to read it, Don has some interest about frame data, but he doesn't have the will to actually read it, i'm not even sure if he still remembers the things i told him about the USF4 changes.

The more people that stands with us, the more will feel obligated to levelup their game in order to stand a chance.