Combo List - Erron Black Erron Black Combo Thread (Updated 15.05.15)

[Crathen]

Great job on the damage and execution!
Any chance you can provide some notations?

Props are in order to @DoctrineDark , but yea i can do that , most combos are for Marksman

112xxRC 11 f24xxdbf2 22%
j1 b32u1 RC b2xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 32%
j1 b32u1 RC f24xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 32%
(Corner) 112 b33xxdb2 11 11b3xxdbf2 30%
(Corner) j1 b32u1 4xxdb4 NJP f24xxdb2 b33xxdbf2 39%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 11b3xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4db4 b33xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 3xxdb4 NJP b33xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 3xxdb4 NJP f24 11b3xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 b33xxdbf2 41%
f13xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC 11 f24xxdbf2 31%
j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 34%
j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC 11 f24xxdbf2 35%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 b33xxdbf2 41%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxEX db4 11 b33xxdbf2 44%

Also i've been implementing ending combos w MB Throw and to my pleasure if you RC w the right timing you can get a free 50/50 attempt even midscreen with the opponent unable to backdash / armor / anything they just have to guess between f1/b3 , i'll post my notations later

 

[lionheart21]

Having an issue with 2,1,1,2 into Sand Tackle. I can pull off the combo, but for some reason, the command grab animation goes right through the training dummy.

Am I doing something wrong? Is this supposed to only work if the opponent has been knocked into the air, since I can get that one to work?

 

[lionheart21]

Out of sheer dumb luck while trying to pull the above combo off, I think I may have found one of Erron's easiest (and most damaging) X-ray setups at midscreen thus far.

B3,3 into X-Ray 7 hits 44% damage

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Out of sheer dumb luck while trying to pull the above combo off, I think I may have found one of Erron's easiest (and most damaging) X-ray setups at midscreen thus far.

B3,3 into X-Ray 7 hits 44% damage

They're fun to know and all, but practically speaking, meter is way too valuable in this game to waste on X-rays. Unless you are closing out the match completely with that combo, I'd rather take the upper-30% stuff we get meterless/off 1 bar any day. Otherwise you're getting eaten alive on wakeup.

 

[wsj515]

Having an issue with 2,1,1,2 into Sand Tackle. I can pull off the combo, but for some reason, the command grab animation goes right through the training dummy.

Am I doing something wrong? Is this supposed to only work if the opponent has been knocked into the air, since I can get that one to work?

If your opponent is grounded the command grab will whiff. In the air it will connect, but you must input 21122 and cancel into command grab after 2112 comes out (not a typo, you must cancel before the final hit). Imo its much easier to just do 211xxdbf2 instead

 

[lionheart21]

They're fun to know and all, but practically speaking, meter is way too valuable in this game to waste on X-rays. Unless you are closing out the match completely with that combo, I'd rather take the upper-30% stuff we get meterless/off 1 bar any day. Otherwise you're getting eaten alive on wakeup.

Yeah, I know, Erron's meter is better suited to moves like EX Slide or EX Sand Toss. Still, its a good combo to keep in mind when you're about to win.

 

[lionheart21]

If your opponent is grounded the command grab will whiff. In the air it will connect, but you must input 21122 and cancel into command grab after 2112 comes out (not a typo, you must cancel before the final hit). Imo its much easier to just do 211xxdbf2 instead

Thanks for the tip, that's a lot easier to hit.

 

[ProudDisciple]

Props are in order to @DoctrineDark , but yea i can do that , most combos are for Marksman

112xxRC 11 f24xxdbf2 22%
j1 b32u1 RC b2xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 32%
j1 b32u1 RC f24xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 32%
(Corner) 112 b33xxdb2 11 11b3xxdbf2 30%
(Corner) j1 b32u1 4xxdb4 NJP f24xxdb2 b33xxdbf2 39%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 11b3xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4db4 b33xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 3xxdb4 NJP b33xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 3xxdb4 NJP f24 11b3xxdbf2 40%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 b33xxdbf2 41%
f13xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC 11 f24xxdbf2 31%
j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC f24xxdbf2 34%
j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 RC 11 f24xxdbf2 35%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdf1xxRC 11b3xxdb2 4xxdb4 11 b33xxdbf2 41%
(Corner) j1 b33xxdb2 4xxEX db4 11 b33xxdbf2 44%

Also i've been implementing ending combos w MB Throw and to my pleasure if you RC w the right timing you can get a free 50/50 attempt even midscreen with the opponent unable to backdash / armor / anything they just have to guess between f1/b3 , i'll post my notations later

Thanks a lot for your time!

Oh and shoutouts to @DoctrineDark sorry for not giving you credit.

 

[Nrdify]

(Marksman)
Pressure strings I use.
b33xxGunCancel, 11b3xxdbf2(tick throw, also works with 211xxdbf2)
f13xxGunCancel, d3xxdbf2(tick throw)
21122xxGunCancel,21122xxEXdb1
4xxGunCancel, 12, d3xxdbf2

 

[GreatOldOne]

I've seen SonicFox stream his Marksman yesterday it was insane. So does that mean that Outlaw is pretty much dead? Is there any upside for playing Outlaw instead of Markman? It seems like the damage is lower and his zoning tools are non existent.

 

[MsMiharo]

I've seen SonicFox stream his Marksman yesterday it was insane. So does that mean that Outlaw is pretty much dead? Is there any upside for playing Outlaw instead of Markman? It seems like the damage is lower and his zoning tools are non existent.

what are you on about? They play differenty and outlaw has armor on more stuff.

 

[GreatOldOne]

what are you on about? They play differenty and outlaw has armor on more stuff.

I asked a question and your answer didn't really answer anything. He has armor on more stuff, ok. Does that make it up for the lack of damage and zoning tools? If you want to explain in what situations Outlaw is better or against which character then please I would love to know. Answering with: "no, you're wrong" isn't really helping.

 

[The Farmer]

I've seen SonicFox stream his Marksman yesterday it was insane. So does that mean that Outlaw is pretty much dead? Is there any upside for playing Outlaw instead of Markman? It seems like the damage is lower and his zoning tools are non existent.

First, Sonic Fox, is Sonic Fox, he hasn't lost an NRS event in over a year. He could probably use Goro and still be very successful. I don't think any of the variations are "dead." They all have specific qualities that can be used in many matchup specific situations, gunslinger has stuff that hasn't been fleshed out with yet. It's too soon to say any variation is dead.

 

[MsMiharo]

I asked a question and your answer didn't really answer anything. He has armor on more stuff, ok. Does that make it up for the lack of damage and zoning tools? If you want to explain in what situations Outlaw is better or against which character then please I would love to know. Answering with: "no, you're wrong" isn't really helping.

I was referring to the Fox part. A variation dies because he chose to stream with another one? You didn't really back it up in any other way.

Outlaw has better pressure and get out of pressure tools. Also meterless.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I was referring to the Fox part. A variation dies because he chose to stream with another one? You didn't really back it up in any other way.

Outlaw has better pressure and get out of pressure tools. Also meterless.

Eh... Marksman is better at both those things. I think outlaws only real advantage is easier combos and an armored wakeup/reversal option that starts a combo. Meterless damage is pretty even, and Marksman wins handedly with meter and in the corner.

 

[GreatOldOne]

He actually streamed both variations, but the Marksman one looked just better in every aspect. Maybe dead is the wrong word, I should have used "lesser". Anyway I love Outlaw, it's the only variation that I play. But after watching that stream I feel like I should switch to Marksman.

 

[MsMiharo]

Eh... Marksman is better at both those things. I think outlaws only real advantage is easier combos and an armored wakeup/reversal option that starts a combo. Meterless damage is pretty even, and Marksman wins handedly with meter and in the corner.

perhaps you're right. Marksman is definitely the stronger variation atm in my book.

 

[InFlames]

not sure how useful this can be but in the corner after a EX sand grenade you can uppercut, keep them in the corner, and continue the combo. you can do stuff like stringxxEX sand grenade, d2, 112, njp, 21122xxSand Trap

 

[Crathen]

Marksman is def good but Outlaw has a lot of stuff going that makes his strong point even stronger , you can't compare anything Marksman has that matches EX sandtoss armored combo starter , the NJP with sword is a great tool in neutral , sword stab DoT + knockdown adv is great if you don't need the sandtrap corner carry.

Imo they're both equally strong , marksman is more flexible for different matchups.

Dabbling w gunslinger and i've been neglecting the Standoff stance 3 chip , it's pretty insane 1,63 x 5 and it stuffs wakeups like nothing else... if only coin toss was an overhead lol

 

[GreatOldOne]

Marksman is def good but Outlaw has a lot of stuff going that makes his strong point even stronger , you can't compare anything Marksman has that matches EX sandtoss armored combo starter , the NJP with sword is a great tool in neutral , sword stab DoT + knockdown adv is great if you don't need the sandtrap corner carry.

Imo they're both equally strong , marksman is more flexible for different matchups.

Dabbling w gunslinger and i've been neglecting the Standoff stance 3 chip , it's pretty insane 1,63 x 5 and it stuffs wakeups like nothing else... if only coin toss was an overhead lol

Awesome reply, thanks for you insight. I didn't even know sword stab was a hard knockdown. I still think it's probably best to learn them both just in case.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

not sure how useful this can be but in the corner after a EX sand grenade you can uppercut, keep them in the corner, and continue the combo. you can do stuff like stringxxEX sand grenade, d2, 112, njp, 21122xxSand Trap

Does it work if you combo into the grenade or just off a raw grenade?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Marksman is def good but Outlaw has a lot of stuff going that makes his strong point even stronger , you can't compare anything Marksman has that matches EX sandtoss armored combo starter , the NJP with sword is a great tool in neutral , sword stab DoT + knockdown adv is great if you don't need the sandtrap corner carry.

Imo they're both equally strong , marksman is more flexible for different matchups.

Dabbling w gunslinger and i've been neglecting the Standoff stance 3 chip , it's pretty insane 1,63 x 5 and it stuffs wakeups like nothing else... if only coin toss was an overhead lol

Pretty much this. Marksman is a strong well-rounded choice with high damage options, while outlaw makes his up-close game more threatening and adds a strong air normal.
I personally don't like stab at all. Gives up your njp for a bit, and doesn't really add that much more damage compared to ending a combo in sandtrap instead. Juice isn't worth the squeeze. The hard KD is nice, but we have other options for that, including sandtrap if I'm not mistaken, which you can sprint up on after.
I too have dabbled in gunslinger. It's not terrible, but it doesn't feel any more solid at zoning than Marksman to me so far. Seems to struggle against the same stuff with none of the additional benefits. Standoff stance is the most interesting part of the variation, baiting your opponent into trying different ways through it and punishing them for it, but it's a bit to easy to work through most of the time and there isn't really anything there that can break it into being amazing. What you see is pretty much what you get.

 

[Crathen]

Pretty much this. Marksman is a strong well-rounded choice with high damage options, while outlaw makes his up-close game more threatening and adds a strong air normal.
I personally don't like stab at all. Gives up your njp for a bit, and doesn't really add that much more damage compared to ending a combo in sandtrap instead. Juice isn't worth the squeeze. The hard KD is nice, but we have other options for that, including sandtrap if I'm not mistaken, which you can sprint up on after.
I too have dabbled in gunslinger. It's not terrible, but it doesn't feel any more solid at zoning than Marksman to me so far. Seems to struggle against the same stuff with none of the additional benefits. Standoff stance is the most interesting part of the variation, baiting your opponent into trying different ways through it and punishing them for it, but it's a bit to easy to work through most of the time and there isn't really anything there that can break it into being amazing. What you see is pretty much what you get.

Here's what stab does , normal version adds 4,50 % after the whole animation is done , EX doubles that at 9% so let's take a bnb like this

f12xxdb4 step back j1 b32u1 njp RC f24 211xxdbf2 = 31% Sand trap ender

now let's take a stab bnb ender

f12xxdb4 step back j1 b32u1 njp RC b33xxdf2 = 31% then you add 4,5 % wich makes it 35,5 % , EX makes it 40% wich is on par w the optimal 1 bar Marksman combos

The HDK is nearly identical w stab having like a few more frames of advantage, they both still allow to go in for a 50/50 or check them w sand granade before they can do anything other than wakeup w armor or backdash ( wich gets beat by sandgranade and f12/3 )

The downsides to using stab is losing the NJP and all the sword normals for 3 seconds ( wich means that if you open them up with a 50/50 you'll get back your NJP just in time to use it in the combo ) , also sandtrap combos corner carry more than stab enders

I'm usually in favor of Stab enders , when i really want the corner i'll go for sandtrap enders.

I could see Gunslinger being a zoning / chip based stance but the vertical control aint that good to compete w the tools a lot of characters have , i'll try to look for optimized setups.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

@Crathen thanks. Didn't realize that the stab sword cooldown was only 3 seconds, so that's better off than I thought. Kinda does seem like the damage kinda evens out though, with outlaw doing a little more midscreen, while marks does a fair amount more meterless and metered in the corner. To me, it essentially comes down to whether you want an armored combo starter option or decent zoning/counterzoning options.
I want gunslinger to be good, but right now it's too hokey. You can AA kinda decently with standoff -> 2, but it takes either insane reactions or a good read. I think the key comes down to being really good with the standoff stance to pressure them at most regions of the screen, but the coin is too slow for most zoning purposes and having to pick close/medium/far makes it more for good reads than actual zoning, kinda like a shitty version of stuff that MMH/Raven had in INJ. So far it seems like the advantages gained in possible chip damage and the like aren't worth the sacrifices.
Something pretty sick for chip that I like to do in Marksman is end a midscreen combo into f24 xx far caltrops, then go right into db1. Their only real option is a armored advancing wakeup. If they jump, they'll eat a shot or two on the way down, and if they block, they're eating about 3-4% in chip and another 2-3% in bleed from the caltrops, or more if you MB it. Nice conditioning tool as well. Not super relevant, but throwing that out there lol.

 

[GrimJack]

Is markman a good choice for match that quite hard to get in like kitana or kenshi