Match-Up Discussion - Ermac Ermac Match-up Discussion (On-going)

[BoromiRofGeo]

Ermac

Let us all post our observation of match-ups. Who thinks what & so forth. Post videos of problematic matches, and let us discuss them together.
Please be civil. This is topic for everyone.
But written below is just my personal thoughts and representations of match-ups, which doesn't mean they are 100% right or legit. They are just subjective. Let us discuss them, as well as match-up numbers in civil manner. After that, match-up numbers will change accordingly, from subjective to objective, based on general consensus.
Make a post in this manner: Character>Downside>Upside (or upside>downside doesn't matter) and our dear Zaf (or mb me) will update posts this first post to include your overview.
is this is a good idea?

Cassie Cage

• Downside: Today I've played with Arzzu (Russia-MFA2014 1st place) Cassie Cage. I can't say there is something specific that should be mentioned, except for Cassie's 50/50. Once she corners Ermac (usually in 1-2 combo) it is basically slaughter. Her rockets are very hard to fuzzy guard, when she sends both overhead and low at the same time. I'm no expert in mkx, but i'm not even sure it can be fuzzy guarded. I think it is guaranteed for her.
• Upside: Cassie loses mid/far battles, as well as zoning and space control by great margin. If Ermac restricts her movement by doing clever ground slams, as well as instant air soul balls that restrict Cassie jumping on you, she is forced to turtle. By jumping backwards and doing levitate mid-air, then instantly doing slam, forces Cassie to guard low all the time. If she tries to run >>> soul ball. If she tries to jump on you >>> iASB. If she tries to zone/rocket you >>> trade into Soul Ball.
• Conclusion: (4-6) This match up reminds me of Johnny Cage vs Kabal in mk9. Despite the fact that Ermac is much worse zoner in mk10, and more of a rushdown, this matchup is especially problematic. Because Cassie has very fast d1, which even outperforms Ermac's great d1. Ermac's goal in this match up is to try keep as less contact with her as possible, try to catch her with any tool, be that b3/f4 or SoulBall and try to kill her immediately with vortex. If you won't kill her with vortex, then she will... without mercy or second thought.

Kotal Kahn

• Downside: This guy over here is just a footsie monster. He is a killer machine without a doubt. His d3 and especially d4 is so goddamn good that he destroys Ermac's pokes all day long. He crushes Ermac's attempts to play footsie game.
  
• Upside: Ermac feels really safe at long distance. Occasionally throwing slams and soul balls in attempt to catch advancing Kotal.
  
• Conclusion: (5-5) It may be hard for Ermac to compete with Kotal, especially a moving tank like War God, but it is not impossible. Due to sheer amount of huge damage Ermac might just drag Kotal down.

Jax Briggs

• Downside: I would say that it is ironic that in MK9 Ermac mutilates Jax, but in actual matchup exactly opposite takes place. I hoped that in MK10 Jax wouldn't be such a pain in the **s, but he is. Jax in MK10 is a better version of his previous iteration. Jax feels alright at long distance, but he becomes an unstoppable force if he so chooses, and there is nothing that Ermac can do. It is basically trying to destroy a military tank with a pistol... Jax destroys Ermac up-close and personal with his glorious normals.
  
• Upside: Ermac might try to trade soul ball, but in my experience it doesn't work.
• Conclusion: (4-6) Jax has so many forward advancing moves, some with armor even, that it is practically impossible to stop this man. Once Jax corners Ermac, which is basically one or two combos at mid-screen - it is a GG. Good luck getting out without armor. (PS. Soul blast is broken, it practically doesn't work, and even if it hits, Ermac usually loses trade battle and doesn't gain any tactical advantage even if Soul Blast hits opponent)

Kung Jin

• Downside: If you mained Ermac in mk9, you would know, how much we hated Ex-Kartwheel. Kung Jin's Bojutsu variation, and his multiple staff spins are working exactly like Sonya Blade's kartwheel in MK9. It is an armored combo starter, which many, if not all Kung Jin players like to abuse. It leads to tremendous amounts of damage, and to be completely honest, I envy characters like Kung Jin, who brainlessly and mindlessly turn on armored move, time it slightly, trade and do 40%. This is where Kung Jin outperforms Ermac. Ermac due to pushback from staff, cannot full combo punish Kung Jin's EX-specials. It is possible do punish lunge kick (bf3) and some of his spins with standing 2(9f), but I find it very hard to do. Also, in here should be noted, that due to specials coming out of block immediately as inputted, I find it very easy to punish lunge kick(-14f) with soul burst (11f). Drawback is that it only does 5 damage, which is usually not respected by Kung Jin players.
  
• Upside: Only guaranteed way Ermac can punish Kung Jin and make him stop his spamming is by punishing him with EX-lift/lift (due to slow normals). Raw lift (outside of mystic) leads to just 4% damage, while EX-lift leads to 30+ vortex.
  
• Conclusion: (4-6) By doing ex-lift punishes once or twice, you're making Kung Jin respect your options, after which Ermac can outperform him in footsie or mid-range battle, nevertheless, it is easier said than done.

Takeda Takashi

• Downside: Takeda might be slow like a turtle, but he tries to play similar game as Ermac, but with different tools. While Ermac has access to powerful, although very punishable low/overhead setups up-close, Takeda maintains very strong and dominant position at mid-space. Takeda doesn't like to be in your face and doesn't want you to be in his face. This is exactly where problems start. Takeda does surprisingly good job keeping Ermac away. He feels safe as well as at distance, zoning, as well as at mid-space. Due to lack of armored moves, or some forward advancing moves, it becomes quite problematic to approach this youngster. Ermac's teleport does alright job, but it is extremely full combo punishable. (i miss day1 tournaments when Ermac players where getting away with murder xD)
• Upside: Once up close, Takeda will try to initiate his mix-up game, but once you'll figure it out, it should prove no problem to outplay him up-close. Ermac has better normals and access to low/overhead which leads to vortex.
  
• Conclusion: (5-5) Force (or wait) for Takeda to spend his meter in frustration on his specials, block them successfully few times, and then go for full vortex. Good luck breaking that, kid.

Scorpion (outdated since scorp nerf)

• Downside: Let us be honest here... Scorpion drew a long straw in MKX. Has viable all three of his variations (!!!), has amazing specials, amazing normals and what not. Scorpion wins in absolutely every department compared to Ermac. Footsies? Of course he outperforms Ermac, especially Ninjutsu variation. Zoning? He can mind***k with minions in his Inferno variation, and absolutely cannot be zoned due to amazing teleport. Specials? Well, good luck punishing that takedown or minions at fullscreen. But wait, there is more................................................ Hellfire.
  
• Upside: Really, none. I do not know what is upside in here.
  Conclusion:
• Hellfire (3-7) In here especially should be noted Hellfire variation. In mk9 we had Kabal with his broken rushdown and Nomad dash cancels, you don't need me to remind you how difficult it was for Ermac to get out of his pressure without armor... well, guess what, Kabal returned in MKX in the face of Scorpion. Hellfire's pressure is so daunting for Ermac, that you can even spend whole round trying to get out. It is not like we can turn on some magic mambo jambo armored move...
• Inferno (6-4) This variation shouldn't be such intimidating as hellfire variation. Ermac is able to punish almost all of Scorpions specials. Including his takedown (bf4) which can be punished with f4 with ease.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

Shinnok

​

• Pros: Better mixups, better footsie tools, more safety, guaranteed pressure, gains a lot of meter, better pokes, better air normals

• Cons: Meter dependent

- Shinnok Low = 7 frame start-up, Shinnok Overhead: 18 frames start-up (this should be reactable, although I've had no luck, I think it's because the animation is too concealed, either way a -11 on block overhead LAUNCHER should be nerfed (in my opinion), I understand that Shinnok "needed" an overhead, but this blows every other overhead out of the water (especially in combination with the fastest low starter in the game, that can literally punish a friggin poke, I am really hoping for a bit more general balancing)
- Shinnoks overhead is -11 on block: you can punish this with 222 (you have 1 frame to do this, lol) punishing with f4 should be your best bet if you know he'll keep up pressure with a poke. I prefer a guaranteed poke into pressure after I blocked it, though.
- Hell Sparks should be punished with run cancel 222 (if you blocked the second spark) or EX-Telelift (if you blocked the third spark).
- Hell Sparks enhanced (after second or third Spark) should be backdashed after block. Use Soul Blast if Shinnok enhances the FIRST Hell Spark (this gives him time enough to run cancel into a mixup) Worst case scenario you used a bar, but you're still safe.​

• Bone Shaper: 6-4

- f41d2 (low, sceptre hit, overhead hit) = keep blocking low until you see the animation for the overhead
- Sceptre Slam is always -29 on block, has a hard knockdown so afterwards either go for Wake Up EX-Soul Blast/Teleport or block, backdashing will get you caught by another f41d2 string
- 1123 (ends in overhead) = best to eat the overhead in this situation
- Since Bone Shaper is the better footsie and mix-up character but lacks a teleport in this variation, I suggest zoning with Levitate/Soul Ball, whiff punish Sceptre Slam, Hell Sparks and Laser Pistol with Teleport, use b34/b321 excessively, Soul Blast to get out of Vortex pressure
​

• Impostor: 7-3

- f224 into Special has a gap, Soul Blast after 4 is a good option
- Teleport should either a) be uppercutted on reaction, b) block high and counterpoke with d3 (goodluck trying to do this online) or c) jumping 1 into teleport-combo. MOST of the time a Shinnok won't stop pressure after a (blocked) TP into Kick and will go for a d3/4, very hard to counter this
- Mimicry on block: practice punishing this with f4... it has the most awkward time-frame for punishing and 222 isn't going to work every time
- Anything he touches you with will end in a vortex, which SHOULD BE an extra 16% guaranteed throw, with teching being 2 buttons and Shinnok having incredible damage-output after mimicry: don't fuzzy guard unless Shinnok jumps in for a jip into mixup, if he does jump, you need to guess and don't try to tech unless you're psychic​

 

[Geoffmeister]

currently im struggling with hellfire scorpion, i dont know what to do. ermac vs scorpion is like ermac vs kabal in mk9. i'm thinking of starting using block breaker...
if anyone can give me tips about this MU i would be really grateful.

My take on Hellfire (I verse the currently top EU Hellfire (Razor) pretty often):

7-3 in favor of Hellfire (prepatch)
5-5 post patch

• Scorpion in general = block low, reaction block overheads, hellfire is very limited in mixups in comparison to inferno, so he RELIES on you blocking, giving him tons of meter (4/5th EX bar for 3 strings) and free safe damage
  
• **edit: his 214 string has been patched, should be able interrupt his cancelstrings with d1.** If he has full stamina (and likely to go for cancel strings), let yourself get hit by the 214 string (specifically only the last hit, 4), practice punishing by wake-up-rolling into Soul Ball/Teleport (if Scorpion already dialed in the next 21 after the cancel, you can punish EVERYTIME) I didn't figure this one out myself but it works for pretty much any character and while it still isn't "correct" to let yourself get hit, it's better than letting scorpion build meter and chip you out and most importantly: Hellfire will be doing unsafe stuff after his 214 string once he figures this out, at least this opens Hellfire up a bit.

• Scorpions j3 has massive priority (6 startup, -3 on block..), don't ever try to jump in on him (his Flame Aura doesn't only work as a parry but is a good anti-air as well)
• Don't anti-air with anything standing , d4 is your answer
• Flame Aura whiff = Soul Ball or EX-Tele-lift on reaction, Flame Aura block = 222 punish

• if you finally get Scorpion grounded you obviously can't continue pressure because of his teleports, you have to respect this by blocking low everytime (in case of takedown), these are your best chances to counter. You can't really punish a cancelled teleport so just block whatever is coming or d1 into pressure, keep in mind this drains Scorpions stamina meter completely, which is his perfect opportunity for a mixup or a throw,
• option select low with spear (leaves him at -11, but still safe if you're expecting the rest of the string/spear), safe vortexes with EX spear (-5), +8 on block EX fireball (cannot be poked out if he does a b3)

Hope this helps

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

My take on Hellfire (I verse the currently top EU Hellfire (Razor) pretty often):

7-3 in favor of Hellfire

• Scorpion in general = block low, reaction block overheads, hellfire is very limited in mixups in comparison to inferno, so he RELIES on you blocking, giving him tons of meter and free safe damage
  
• If he has full stamina (and likely to go for cancel strings), let yourself get hit by the 214 string (specifically only the last hit, 4), practice punishing by wake-up-rolling into Soul Ball/Teleport (if Scorpion already dialed in the next 21 after the cancel, you can punish EVERYTIME) I didn't figure this one out myself but it works for pretty much any character and while it still isn't "correct" to let yourself get hit, it's better than letting scorpion build meter and chip you out and most importantly: Hellfire will be doing unsafe stuff after his 214 string once he figures this out, at least this opens Hellfire up a bit

• Scorpions j3 has massive priority, don't ever try to jump in on him (crossups are fine usually) or anti-air with anything standing , d4 is your answer
• Flame Aura whiff = Soul Ball or EX-Tele-lift on reaction, Flame Aura block = 222 punish

• f you finally get Scorpion grounded you obviously can't continue pressure because of his teleports, you have to respect this by blocking low everytime (in case of takedown), these are your best chances to counter. The experience I've had so far (online) is that you can't punish when he cancels the teleport, but keep in mind this drains his stamina meter completely, which is his perfect opportunity for a mixup or a throw, I'm pretty sure you can punish with 222 or just a d2 offline though, but I do not know

Hope this helps

thank you for your amazing input. I'd like to add myself that lately i've been playing with some more characters who happen to have cancels, characters like d'vorah, raiden, jax and liu. Situation is analogical like with hellfire scorpion. It gets extremely hard to play against these characters. I will expand on this more, when i'll gather more experience.
ps. also, about what u've said, releasing block and getting hit by last 4 in scorpions string, well scorpion has answer for that, the one i've been playing releases his spear and catches me when i try to get myself hit.

 

[Geoffmeister]

ps. also, about what u've said, releasing block and getting hit by last 4 in scorpions string, well scorpion has answer for that, the one i've been playing releases his spear and catches me when i try to get myself hit.

Meterless, you can't hit-confirm 4 into Spear if you're planning on doing hellfire cancels, so that's a guess, he didn't get to use the meter for a mixup at least. EX Spear is -5 on block, you can d1 if you think he'll continue pressure, tough situation...
Can't even armor out of it, he builds a full bar of meter for 3 cancels, can make his mixups safe... Painful variation that I doubt will ever get balanced but it's all I know right now, on second thought 7-3 is probably incorrect, indeed Kabal all over again lol

 

[DevilMaySpy]

@KamikazeJD You can continue matchup discussion here.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

what are our thoughts post patch? is it easier to fight hellfire scorpion and d'vorah?
is it practical to punish liu's and kung jins flying kick with soul burst since damage increase on s.burst?
ps. im still waiting for a patch on a pc.

 

[Kindred]

Sooooooooo anybody have any idea on how to deal with Shinock Bone Shaper? Pretty sure it's a 1-9 in his favor lol
Ridiculous pressure, safe strings, builds meter like crazy and can essentially take away half your health with chip with 3 bars of meter and it's okay because he builds it back so easily.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

im having hard time myself up close. i havent tried playing with him since they nerfed his 24 to 12 though. Projectile trade is a good tactic i think. basically anyone who gives me trouble up close i try trade my soul ball. instant air soul ball. the one that hits the head.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Even though I am not an ermac player may I know how the match up is with kenshi? I personally have a really hard time fighting ermac

 

[Kindred]

im having hard time myself up close. i havent tried playing with him since they nerfed his 24 to 12 though. Projectile trade is a good tactic i think. basically anyone who gives me trouble up close i try trade my soul ball. instant air soul ball. the one that hits the head.

Bone shaper is just insanity honestly. Even if I try to stay away, he's just a run cancel away and with the long reach of the bone staff, he really just needs to get to mid screen. As for his nerf, it barely changes anything because Shinnoks that I play use it after pulling you to them so it's gonna hit you no matter what, then they follow it with a low 7 frame starter that you have to respect & block. So the 14 frame stagger doesnt really help you.
From what I've noticed in this MU is 3 things:
1 - dont miss your opportunities to punish
2 - Watch his meter as if it was your own. Sometimes it's worth eating a 17% combo to get you out of his pressure & not give him more meter
3 - It's an uphill battle no matter what lol

As for @MrProfDrPepper question against Kenshi. I find that even with kenshi's buffs, it still feels in ermac's favor since you can't really trade with him or you risk eating 36% and he has the teleport, which he can get 34% off a naked teleport. Your best bet is to try to zone him out and bait his teleport and once in a while run in for some safe pressure or a grab if he gets too close. Maybe others can add to this but that's all I can think of at 3:40 am lol

 

[MKF30]

Shinnok, d.voral omg seem to wreck ermac....
kls a pain, I've come to the realization that zoning and turtling is completely irrevent in this game. Damn shame, damn that run, resets etc lol

I share your pain dude using ermac seems like an uphill battle in this game. The fact that zonings irrelevant also does not help. That is all lol

Good topic btw

 

[Geoffmeister]

Bone Shaper Shinnok is pretty bad but I have more issues with Impostor. Both MU's are in Shinnoks favor. Some thoughts:

General:
Pros: Better mixups, better footsie tools, more safety, guaranteed pressure, gains a lot of meter, better pokes, better air normals
Cons: Meter dependent
- Shinnok Low = 7 frame start-up, Shinnok Overhead: 18 frames start-up (this should be reactable, although I've had no luck, I think it's because the animation is too concealed, either way a -11 on block overhead LAUNCHER should be nerfed (in my opinion), I understand that Shinnok "needed" an overhead, but this blows every other overhead out of the water (especially in combination with the fastest low starter in the game, that can literally punish a friggin poke, I am really hoping for a bit more general balancing)
- Shinnoks overhead is -11 on block: you can punish this with 222 (you have 1 frame to do this, lol) punishing with f4 should be your best bet if you know he'll keep up pressure with a poke. I prefer a guaranteed poke into pressure after I blocked it, though.
- Hell Sparks should be punished with run cancel 222 (if you blocked the second spark) or EX-Telelift (if you blocked the third spark).
- Hell Sparks enhanced (after second or third Spark) should be backdashed after block. Use Soul Blast if Shinnok enhances the FIRST Hell Spark (this gives him time enough to run cancel into a mixup) Worst case scenario you used a bar, but you're still safe.

Bone Shaper: 6-4
- f41d2 (low, sceptre hit, overhead hit) = keep blocking low until you see the animation for the overhead
- Sceptre Slam is always -29 on block, has a hard knockdown so afterwards either go for Wake Up EX-Soul Blast/Teleport or block, backdashing will get you caught by another f41d2 string
- 1123 (ends in overhead) = best to eat the overhead in this situation
- Since Bone Shaper is the better footsie and mix-up character but lacks a teleport in this variation, I suggest zoning with Levitate/Soul Ball, whiff punish Sceptre Slam, Hell Sparks and Laser Pistol with Teleport, use b34/b321 excessively, Soul Blast to get out of Vortex pressure

Impostor: 7-3
- f224 into Special has a gap, Soul Blast after 4 is a good option
- Teleport should either a) be uppercutted on reaction, b) block high and counterpoke with d3 (goodluck trying to do this online) or c) jumping 1 into teleport-combo. MOST of the time a Shinnok won't stop pressure after a (blocked) TP into Kick and will go for a d3/4, very hard to counter this
- Mimicry on block: practice punishing this with f4... it has the most awkward time-frame for punishing and 222 isn't going to work every time
- Anything he touches you with will end in a vortex, which SHOULD BE an extra 16% guaranteed throw, with teching being 2 buttons and Shinnok having incredible damage-output after mimicry: don't fuzzy guard unless Shinnok jumps in for a jip into mixup, if he does jump, you need to guess and don't try to tech unless you're psychic

Edit: regarding punishing Hell Sparks: whenever you WANT to punish, Shinnok is able to delay his Enhanced Hell Sparks for quite long and it tracks, so I guess punishing Hell Sparks is is only reliable when Shinnok has no meter.


Hope this helps

edit: I won't be going to EVO but I want to help any Ermac win that thing, he's capable (especially with the Soul Burst buff and corner damage), it just seems you need to be lucky considering other characters have safety over a strong mix-up game and in MKX that has the advantage (imo). I'll share more of my MU knowledge but if anyone can explain me why Quan Chi Summoner is considered a bad matchup against Ermac, that would make me very happy. My pressure gets blown up by a 5 frame NJP and I just CANNOT grasp why any character with dynamic (SAFE) mixups has a place in this game

 

[Bombardier777]

Nice thread. The one im havin most problems against its d'vorah. I really hate playing that insect with any character, but when i got no metter and she starts her pressure if I miss that gap to throw her im fucked

 

[Geoffmeister]

Nice thread. The one im havin most problems against its d'vorah. I really hate playing that insect with any character, but when i got no metter and she starts her pressure if I miss that gap to throw her im fucked

Don't have that much issues with D'vorah, but then again I don't play that MU a lot.
Some tips off the top of my head would be:
- instead of throwing, get a d1/3 into mixup
- don't chase her, let her come to you by doing excessive Levitate Stomps (time these correctly so you never get caught with Vortex Swarm)
- don't jump at her (at least not telegraphed) cause uppercut
- i'll look for gaps in her strings (if she has any) but Soul Blast should be the best thing to do against her (prioritize your meter to this move)
- don't worry about doing 1 bar vortex combo's, cross her up or neutral jump (in the corner) to stay clear of Ovipositor Rush
- tech like b1d2 or (even better) the recent sweep tech will do wonders against her (and to any other character with stationary armored moves)

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

thank you everyone ! i will be updating first post with the input of
@Geoffmeister about shinnok. i completely agree with what he said there.
we need more detailed write up about other characters.
and also, what are our thoughts about nerfed scorpion? is it better? like is it 5-5 or is it 4-6 (scorp favor) ? i havent played with nerfed scorp so far. im on a god damn master race machine.

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

currently im struggling with hellfire scorpion, i dont know what to do. ermac vs scorpion is like ermac vs kabal in mk9. i'm thinking of starting using block breaker...
if anyone can give me tips about this MU i would be really grateful.

scorpion is pretty similar against all, ermac has good run speed, so when he use demons u teleport or run and don't forgot punish all his unsafe attacks with ur maximum damage and vortex

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

scorpion is pretty similar against all, ermac has good run speed, so when he use demons u teleport or run and don't forgot punish all his unsafe attacks with ur maximum damage and vortex

yes i agree, i think vs inferno it is in Ermac's favor like 6-4. But it was 3-7 with hellfire last time i checked. dunno about latest situation development with scorpion.
also. i didn't know it was not possible to post more than 8 images in one post gwaaaaaaah. damn. how should i update first post. @zaf

 

[Kindred]

Bone Shaper Shinnok is pretty bad but I have more issues with Impostor. Both MU's are in Shinnoks favor. Some thoughts:

General:
Pros: Better mixups, better footsie tools, more safety, guaranteed pressure, gains a lot of meter, better pokes, better air normals
Cons: Meter dependent
- Shinnok Low = 7 frame start-up, Shinnok Overhead: 18 frames start-up (this should be reactable, although I've had no luck, I think it's because the animation is too concealed, either way a -11 on block overhead LAUNCHER should be nerfed (in my opinion), I understand that Shinnok "needed" an overhead, but this blows every other overhead out of the water (especially in combination with the fastest low starter in the game, that can literally punish a friggin poke, I am really hoping for a bit more general balancing)
- Shinnoks overhead is -11 on block: you can punish this with 222 (you have 1 frame to do this, lol) punishing with f4 should be your best bet if you know he'll keep up pressure with a poke. I prefer a guaranteed poke into pressure after I blocked it, though.
- Hell Sparks should be punished with run cancel 222 (if you blocked the second spark) or EX-Telelift (if you blocked the third spark).
- Hell Sparks enhanced (after second or third Spark) should be backdashed after block. Use Soul Blast if Shinnok enhances the FIRST Hell Spark (this gives him time enough to run cancel into a mixup) Worst case scenario you used a bar, but you're still safe.

Bone Shaper: 6-4
- f41d2 (low, sceptre hit, overhead hit) = keep blocking low until you see the animation for the overhead
- Sceptre Slam is always -29 on block, has a hard knockdown so afterwards either go for Wake Up EX-Soul Blast/Teleport or block, backdashing will get you caught by another f41d2 string
- 1123 (ends in overhead) = best to eat the overhead in this situation
- Since Bone Shaper is the better footsie and mix-up character but lacks a teleport in this variation, I suggest zoning with Levitate/Soul Ball, whiff punish Sceptre Slam, Hell Sparks and Laser Pistol with Teleport, use b34/b321 excessively, Soul Blast to get out of Vortex pressure

Impostor: 7-3
- f224 into Special has a gap, Soul Blast after 4 is a good option
- Teleport should either a) be uppercutted on reaction, b) block high and counterpoke with d3 (goodluck trying to do this online) or c) jumping 1 into teleport-combo. MOST of the time a Shinnok won't stop pressure after a (blocked) TP into Kick and will go for a d3/4, very hard to counter this
- Mimicry on block: practice punishing this with f4... it has the most awkward time-frame for punishing and 222 isn't going to work every time
- Anything he touches you with will end in a vortex, which SHOULD BE an extra 16% guaranteed throw, with teching being 2 buttons and Shinnok having incredible damage-output after mimicry: don't fuzzy guard unless Shinnok jumps in for a jip into mixup, if he does jump, you need to guess and don't try to tech unless you're psychic


Hope this helps

edit: I won't be going to EVO but I want to help any Ermac win that thing, he's capable (especially with the Soul Burst buff and corner damage), it just seems you need to be lucky considering other characters have safety over a strong mix-up game and in MKX that has the advantage (imo). I'll share more of my MU knowledge but if anyone can explain me why Quan Chi Summoner is considered a bad matchup against Ermac, that would make me very happy. My pressure gets blown up by a 5 frame NJP and I just CANNOT grasp why any character with dynamic (SAFE) mixups has a place in this game

I would be more incline to say 7-3 for bone shaper Shinnok tbh. @Kidigital opinion?

As for summoner, while it may feel hard and definitely needs practice, the reason why Ermac MOS is a counter pick to summoner is because Quan Chi has a lot of difficulty getting out of pressure. In addition, when he does mix you up, there are certain moments where you can simply back dash out of his pressure but not a lot of ppl know about it i guess.
For example, he has a move where he catches you in a trance, throws his bat at your feet while simultaneously neutral jump punching you. It's very hard to block online but doable since the bat hits first so you block low then stand block the NjP. After this, you can just back dash out of his pressure or poke him.
His overhead is quite slow and similar to how ermac players condition the opponent to block low so they get the over head, quan chi players do that too.
So yea I'd say it's probably a 6-4 in ermac's favor but you need to know Quan's strings

 

[Bombardier777]

thank you everyone ! i will be updating first post with the input of
@Geoffmeister about shinnok. i completely agree with what he said there.
we need more detailed write up about other characters.
and also, what are our thoughts about nerfed scorpion? is it better? like is it 5-5 or is it 4-6 (scorp favor) ? i havent played with nerfed scorp so far. im on a god damn master race machine.

Scorpion is shit right now thats why I moved to ermac... Hellfire is shit and inferno is even shittier

 

[Geoffmeister]

thank you everyone ! i will be updating first post with the input of
@Geoffmeister about shinnok. i completely agree with what he said there.
we need more detailed write up about other characters.
and also, what are our thoughts about nerfed scorpion? is it better? like is it 5-5 or is it 4-6 (scorp favor) ? i havent played with nerfed scorp so far. im on a god damn master race machine.

So far I haven't played many Scorpions, but offline should never be a problem. I think it's 5-5 (Hellfire) and 4-6 (Inferno).. Ninjutsu however..

I would be more incline to say 7-3 for bone shaper Shinnok tbh. @Kidigital opinion?

As for summoner, while it may feel hard and definitely needs practice, the reason why Ermac MOS is a counter pick to summoner is because Quan Chi has a lot of difficulty getting out of pressure. In addition, when he does mix you up, there are certain moments where you can simply back dash out of his pressure but not a lot of ppl know about it i guess.
For example, he has a move where he catches you in a trance, throws his bat at your feet while simultaneously neutral jump punching you. It's very hard to block online but doable since the bat hits first so you block low then stand block the NjP. After this, you can just back dash out of his pressure or poke him.
His overhead is quite slow and similar to how ermac players condition the opponent to block low so they get the over head, quan chi players do that too.
So yea I'd say it's probably a 6-4 in ermac's favor but you need to know Quan's strings

I've tried backdashing during many of his lowbat mixups, it's too inconsistent, I'd get hit with either one.. I realize online it's very hard to block but even when I replicate it during offline practice it's still very strict.
I wouldn't backdash after I blocked a near unblockable in that situation.. if you could backdash before it, that'd be nice but you have to respect the overheads range, 15 frames is not reactable, fuzzy guarding is tough because Quan can delay his faster 9 frame b3 anyway.. I know Quan's strings, i can't agree with 6-4 Quans favor considering any mixup Ermac has Quan's is faster or has more range, can be made safe with and without meter, always ends in a vortex, has more meter gain and meter synergy, Only disadvantage is no armored move, which is a real issue against characters with safe or + on block strings/specials. Ermac only has 1 and 11 which is + and the first hit is a high, d3 (-1 on block..?) or backdashing is enough for him to get out.
Am I missing something?

 

[Kidigital]

I would be more incline to say 7-3 for bone shaper Shinnok tbh. @Kidigital opinion?

As for summoner, while it may feel hard and definitely needs practice, the reason why Ermac MOS is a counter pick to summoner is because Quan Chi has a lot of difficulty getting out of pressure. In addition, when he does mix you up, there are certain moments where you can simply back dash out of his pressure but not a lot of ppl know about it i guess.
For example, he has a move where he catches you in a trance, throws his bat at your feet while simultaneously neutral jump punching you. It's very hard to block online but doable since the bat hits first so you block low then stand block the NjP. After this, you can just back dash out of his pressure or poke him.
His overhead is quite slow and similar to how ermac players condition the opponent to block low so they get the over head, quan chi players do that too.
So yea I'd say it's probably a 6-4 in ermac's favor but you need to know Quan's strings

7/3 imo. you can react to ground pound and soul ball with ex scoop into NJ combo everytime free and end in reset

 

[zaf]

yes i agree, i think vs inferno it is in Ermac's favor like 6-4. But it was 3-7 with hellfire last time i checked. dunno about latest situation development with scorpion.
also. i didn't know it was not possible to post more than 8 images in one post gwaaaaaaah. damn. how should i update first post. @zaf

What do you mean ? Just edit it normally ?

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

What do you mean ? Just edit it normally ?

yeah but when added view character avatars it said that i cant post more than 8 images in one post. was weird. =(

 

[zaf]

yeah but when added view character avatars it said that i cant post more than 8 images in one post. was weird. =(

This is why you save the first 3-4 posts in a thread like this =P
You can try to send me the images in a PM and I can see what I can do