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Enough is Enough!!!

come on I have nothing against you as a person but you say a lot of stuff that is bad, like REALLY bad.

24 low hat is nothing siginificant on hit. on block its full combo punish by cage and he gets in and he will chip you for at least 10% extra and build a lot of meter. you nead to play safe in this matchup. Instead of trying to use 1000 gimmicks and techs, first learn the basics of kung lao.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
PerfectMindGame
I specifically don't have the game yet and am doing research on the gameplay, but even then I can see that nobody is providing substantial evidence he isn't top 5 when he is widely recognized to be in the place he is now. The only reason this started is because ONE person says he isn't and a bunch of arguing came from it. The only logical way to argue against him being top 5 is to state the evidence that he isn't, and a lot of things people bring up to try saying he isn't top 5 is getting proven wrong or meaningless. The side saying he IS top 5 has many reasons that he should continue being top 5. You don't have to be playing the game to see this, you only have to read the forums and it's plain as day.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
come on I have nothing against you as a person but you say a lot of stuff that is bad, like REALLY bad.

24 low hat is nothing siginificant on hit. on block its full combo punish by cage and he gets in and he will chip you for at least 10% extra and build a lot of meter. you nead to play safe in this matchup. Instead of trying to use 1000 gimmicks and techs, first learn the basics of kung lao.
i already know the basics of Kung lao and i already know low hat isn't probably the best idea, but the point is that if it hits it puts you at sweep distance. Its not like i do it all the time anyways, im not even saying its something you should be using. I just happen to do it every now and then just for mindgames. I read the guide on kung lao bro lol, i know im doing unsafe stuff iwth 24 lowhat, but thats not gonna stop me from throwing it out there every now and then.
 
PerfectMindGame
I specifically don't have the game yet and am doing research on the gameplay, but even then I can see that nobody is providing substantial evidence he isn't top 5 when he is widely recognized to be in the place he is now. The only reason this started is because ONE person says he isn't and a bunch of arguing came from it. The only logical way to argue against him being top 5 is to state the evidence that he isn't, and a lot of things people bring up to try saying he isn't top 5 is getting proven wrong or meaningless. The side saying he IS top 5 has many reasons that he should continue being top 5. You don't have to be playing the game to see this, you only have to read the forums and it's plain as day.
oh my god, NOBODY has said anything significant in this forum why is he top 5. I have asked countless times why all these kung lao ''experts'' think he is top 5 but nobody replies because they don't know the character. I will say foxy and glue know the character and say he is 2nd. they KNOW lao and I think he is top 5 or just outside it, but I think I have proven my knowledge on lao since I am basically the only one that is really posting in the lao forum.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i know lao....granted im no grand master with him yet...but im workin at it. Kung is one of my 3 mains, so u can't say i don't know the basics with him...because i do.
 

coolwhip

Noob
oh my god, NOBODY has said anything significant in this forum why is he top 5. I have asked countless times why all these kung lao ''experts'' think he is top 5 but nobody replies because they don't know the character. I will say foxy and glue know the character and say he is 2nd. they KNOW lao and I think he is top 5 or just outside it, but I think I have proven my knowledge on lao since I am basically the only one that is really posting in the lao forum.
I think the main reason why many don't bother explaining why Lao is top 5 is because it's almost considered common knowledge. Meanwhile, those who say he's not are the ones who are supposed to come up with their explanation, since it goes against common wisdom.
 
He's close to being top 10, and I wouldn't really find it crazy if someone says he is. You have Kabal, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Cyrax, Sonya, Freddy, and Cage that are clearly better than him. Everything else becomes debatable. I'd still rank Smoke, Kitana and Reptile ahead of him too. I consider him in the same boat with Jax and Sektor. IMO, he sits just outside the top 10.
i actually got him top 10 because tbh, he only really has trouble with kenshi and freddy, the rest of the cast he does very well against and i believe he is the only char that goes 5 5 with kabal. I'm willing to prove he goes 5 5 with kabal, i beat PL's and Cat's at Dallas, but I'd need to beat REO's too to prove my point.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
damnnnnnnnn, also what is your opinion on PL having lao out of top 5 and top 10?????
I'll always see him as #2.

Simple effective wakeup game.
Good options against opponents wakeups
Most normals end at neutral & threat of the fastest move/launcher at the end of every string.
Cant be challenged in the air by majority of the cast, JK DK wins near enough everytime & combos. If its blocked the JK will hit, DK will go over them.
Annoying enough zoning to force mistakes
Best X-Ray
2nd quickest hitconfirmable launching string in the game, with huge range, also 2 4 which is only -1
Some options for unbreakable damage
Teleport
2 amazing anti airs (standing 2 & spin)
Roll with mindgames.
Overhead safe string
Easy Anti-crossover
21212 / 1211 chip strings
DIVEKICK!
Probably one of the best throws.
Brutal wall game.
Easiest character to interupt strings with (Sektor 12B1/Sonya *any string*/Jax F4

Pretty much he has an answer for every situation, and usually its more than 1 answer. He can be played any way you like, and the thing is you can switch styles instantly, its not like Cage for example where theres clear transitions between gameplay. KL can go from turtling to offensive to spacing to whatever, whenever he likes. It means the opponent has to be thinking many steps ahead if its a confusing Lao too.

You can play him a Scorpion fashion if you really want, its quite effective against some people. Since everything is neutral the threat of the spin is at the end of every string, to block or not to block?
 
I'll always see him as #2.

Simple effective wakeup game.
Good options against opponents wakeups
Most normals end at neutral & threat of the fastest move/launcher at the end of every string.
Cant be challenged in the air by majority of the cast, JK DK wins near enough everytime & combos. If its blocked the JK will hit, DK will go over them.
Annoying enough zoning to force mistakes
Best X-Ray
2nd quickest hitconfirmable launching string in the game, with huge range, also 2 4 which is only -1
Some options for unbreakable damage
Teleport
2 amazing anti airs (standing 2 & spin)
Roll with mindgames.
Overhead safe string
21212 / 1211 chip strings
DIVEKICK!
Probably one of the best throws.
Brutal wall game.
very good breakdown of lao, i'll keep him top 5, I think someone needs to teach PL some things he might be missing with lao. No one plays a character perfectly, so he could use the help. I think he needs to incorporate a more footsie based lao.
 

coolwhip

Noob
i actually got him top 10 because tbh, he only really has trouble with kenshi and freddy, the rest of the cast he does very well against and i believe he is the only char that goes 5 5 with kabal. I'm willing to prove he goes 5 5 with kabal, i beat PL's and Cat's at Dallas, but I'd need to beat REO's too to prove my point.
I think Liu Kang is hella underrated to be sure. And I actually agree with you that he's among the characters that do relatively well against Kabal (though I don't know about 5-5... that remains to be seen I suppose). The thing about Liu Kang is that despite not having match-ups where he absolutely dominates a character (unless we're talking about a really low tier char), he doesn't lose badly to anyone either, with the exception of Kenshi and Freddy who can keep him out with their zoning. He's an extremely solid characters with very good tools: An excellent, diverse rushdown game and extremely underrated zoning (I've seen what Shorry can do with IAFB).
 

HGTV DrFlash44

Quan Cheese!!!
1 he doesn't need more he's very good where he is
2 I think ex low hat should be used more. If you throw down an ex low hat and grab them and let it go at the right time you can get a full combo.
 
I think Liu Kang is hella underrated to be sure. And I actually agree with you that he's among the characters that do relatively well against Kabal (though I don't know about 5-5... that remains to be seen I suppose). The thing about Liu Kang is that despite not match-ups where he absolutely dominates a character (unless we're talking about a really low tier char), he doesn't lose badly to anyone either, with the exception of Kenshi and Freddy who can keep him out with their zoning. He's an extremely solid characters with very good tools: An excellent, diverse rushdown game and extremely underrated zoning (I've seen what Shorry can do with IAFB).
indeed, and his footsies game is gdlk. the range and speed of back 3,1,2 is unmatched and his standing 2 is 8 frames, both superb tools for footsies. I really want to prove that kabal doens't beat every char, which is why vegas crew will try our best to get out to NEC.
 
I'll always see him as #2.

Simple effective wakeup game.
Good options against opponents wakeups
Most normals end at neutral & threat of the fastest move/launcher at the end of every string.
Cant be challenged in the air by majority of the cast, JK DK wins near enough everytime & combos. If its blocked the JK will hit, DK will go over them.
Annoying enough zoning to force mistakes
Best X-Ray
2nd quickest hitconfirmable launching string in the game, with huge range, also 2 4 which is only -1
Some options for unbreakable damage
Teleport
2 amazing anti airs (standing 2 & spin)
Roll with mindgames.
Overhead safe string
Easy Anti-crossover
21212 / 1211 chip strings
DIVEKICK!
Probably one of the best throws.
Brutal wall game.
Easiest character to interupt strings with (Sektor 12B1/Sonya *any string*/Jax F4

Pretty much he has an answer for every situation, and usually its more than 1 answer. He can be played any way you like, and the thing is you can switch styles instantly, its not like Cage for example where theres clear transitions between gameplay. KL can go from turtling to offensive to spacing to whatever, whenever he likes. It means the opponent has to be thinking many steps ahead if its a confusing Lao too.

You can play him a Scorpion fashion if you really want, its quite effective against some people. Since everything is neutral the threat of the spin is at the end of every string, to block or not to block?
Lately ive been working on his wallgame, he just has so many options to dive kick you into that wall for full combo and its harder for people to poke him out of lao pressure because of the dive kick and because its in the corner he doesnt have to dash up to the opponent anymore to make good use of the advantages on hit, the ex teleport becomes a lot better as well, also people panick a lot and try to jump out, which you can spin for higher damaging combos because its in the corner, and you can end those combos in teleport setups as well.

the only thing that makes him not nr1 is imo a mid hitting string that people have to resepect and is below 15 frames. and his low hat with the prepatch recovery for zoning and -7 on block again. he doesnt need the +20 on hit.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
I'll always see him as #2.

Simple effective wakeup game.
Good options against opponents wakeups
Most normals end at neutral & threat of the fastest move/launcher at the end of every string.
Cant be challenged in the air by majority of the cast, JK DK wins near enough everytime & combos. If its blocked the JK will hit, DK will go over them.
Annoying enough zoning to force mistakes
Best X-Ray
2nd quickest hitconfirmable launching string in the game, with huge range, also 2 4 which is only -1
Some options for unbreakable damage
Teleport
2 amazing anti airs (standing 2 & spin)
Roll with mindgames.
Overhead safe string
Easy Anti-crossover
21212 / 1211 chip strings
DIVEKICK!
Probably one of the best throws.
Brutal wall game.
Easiest character to interupt strings with (Sektor 12B1/Sonya *any string*/Jax F4

Pretty much he has an answer for every situation, and usually its more than 1 answer. He can be played any way you like, and the thing is you can switch styles instantly, its not like Cage for example where theres clear transitions between gameplay. KL can go from turtling to offensive to spacing to whatever, whenever he likes. It means the opponent has to be thinking many steps ahead if its a confusing Lao too.

You can play him a Scorpion fashion if you really want, its quite effective against some people. Since everything is neutral the threat of the spin is at the end of every string, to block or not to block?

i most definitely agree
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Lulzlou grind hat turns KL's throw into one of the best in the game, especially in the corner.
for sure, Grind hat is one of the most versatile projectiles in the game i think, what other projectile lets you have THAT much control over it?
 

gdf

Noob
Their's probably a more possible tech to be discovered for Kung Lao at this point of the game.

Anyone who puts Kung Lao out of top ten doesn't want to change their playstyle.
 

Lulzlou

Noob
Lulzlou grind hat turns KL's throw into one of the best in the game, especially in the corner.
I'll stop trolling ;__;
I actually have grind hat set ups as well. The only part I was being serious was how it feels inconsistent and very situational. That is from my experience though, I haven't really ran into a KL that uses grind hit effectively. Its an opinion, I know I could be wrong and accept it if someone proves it works well.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
I'll stop trolling ;__;
I actually have grind hat set ups as well. The only part I was being serious was how it feels inconsistent and very situational. That is from my experience though, I haven't really ran into a KL that uses grind hit effectively. Its an opinion, I know I could be wrong and accept it if someone proves it works well.
i can use it quite effectively actually, i've aa'd with the damn thing before and gotten a full combo, i've ensured a safe teleport 3 with it plenty of times :)
 
Has any body in this thread seen that VSM stream back in the day with ChrisG Reptile and REO Kung Lao? Its easily one of my favorite matches of all tme.
REO uses so many unique Ex hat tricks in so many different ways that I never see players ever do or attempt.


edit: Part two has some awesome stuff to. my favorite is the ending.