Cyrax needs the break window of his command grab reduced to 5 or 6 frames.

[Sporko]

I've posted this before, but considering there is a one button break, a 14 frame startup and a 10 frame break window, offline this throw is going to be techable on reaction at least 95% of the time. Hell, last night it was being teched 75% of the time *online*.

The only thing that made command grab anything even RESEMBLING OP was that it setup bomb trap. Bomb trap is no longer in the game and, as such, there is absolutely no reason for command grab to have such a lengthy break window.

Unless they can find someway to turn command grab into a 50/50 break, they *need* to reduce the break window.

Thoughts?

 

[SZSR]

Well is command grab critical to your strategy? If it isn't then do what Smoke players do with their teleports, use it only occasionally so that players begin to forget about it and when it is sprung up on them they won't be able to react to tech.

If it is critical to your strategy, then I could see why it would need a frame reduce.

 

[Sporko]

Frankly I don't feel it matters if you "surprise" your opponent with it, or if they're not ready for it. It is slow enough where you can not be expecting it, and stilll be able to break it on reaction. I fear that, offline, this move has been neutered to the point of complete uselessness.

 

[younghou]

for people who claim.."you only depend of cyrax comand throw and bla bla bla"
i have to say something.... you don't have a good reason outside his comand grab to pick cyrax
he suck in rush game , he zoning game is not strong (not like noob, kano, ermac, kitana or kabal)

i wanna pick good chars, if they nerf my char i am forced to pick a better char like kano or raiden

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

ahhh the command grab discussion. i use cyrax and very rarely i use that move. he doesnt need that move. if you got one bar, you can do a 55%+ combo with him just using one bar. Now, if you want to use the command throw i would suggest of jumping in punch and do 2,1 and if it hit confirms throw the net. those that makes sense? this is what ive done so far after the patch. Command grab, jump in punch, 2,1, net.....also command grab, jump in punch, 2,1, EXdf3. Not sure if the people im up against do not have time to react but every time ive do it I always catch them blocking.

 

[Sporko]

See I disagree, I feel he does need the command grab. Cyrax doesn't have a high/low mixup game. Command grab is more or less what he has to mix opponents up. Without it, Cyrax's entire game seems to be hoping to land random nets and combo'ing from there. And, even aside from that, they decided to give Cyrax the games only non X-Ray command grab. It's a unique tool that only he possesses, and to neuter it to the point of near uselessness takes away not only from the flavor of the character, but frankly I feel that it takes away from variety in the game as a whole.

Bomb trap is gone, there is no reason to punish command throw for the sins of a bomb trap that no longer even exists. That's where I stand on the issue, anyhow.

 

[KTH]

Personally, I think they overdone the nerf. If they keep the trap and increase the tech window, cyrax would be fine. He's weak against top tier characters. He does need the CG to compete in high level. He really doesn't have anything else. It's not a true 50/50 when you only respect one of his options. In theory, safe jump after cg sound good but I don't think it's really applicable.

He's average at best now. He really doesn't excell in anything. NRs need to put back the cg bomb trap or increase the cg damage. If you say you don't need cg to compete, you either playing against below average players or you're lying. AGainst decent players, he need that CG bomb trap

 

[TONY-T]

I say bring back the bomb trap. They have nerfed the bomb trap and the command throw, when only the command throw need nerfing. As others have stated he just cant compete anymore against top tier characters.

As of now, cyrax is mid to low tier in my opinion.

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

time to switch mains!

 

[Sporko]

tony I'd love bomb trap back as well but I honestly don't think that it would matter if they brought it back right now. I am still convinced that offline command throw can't land against anybody who knows what they're doing. 10 frames is just too much time to break the throw considering a 14 frame startup and a single tech button.

 

[TONY-T]

tony I'd love bomb trap back as well but I honestly don't think that it would matter if they brought it back right now. I am still convinced that offline command throw can't land against anybody who knows what they're doing. 10 frames is just too much time to break the throw considering a 14 frame startup and a single tech button.

Yea your probably right bro. I usually get mine broken 90% of the time even online, but its the 10% that could make a difference if we had the bomb trap back. I think thats a fair trade off. Still, i really think they have gone the wrong way about it. If they were going to nerf the bomb trap i see no need to nerf the command throw. It should be one nerf or the other, not both, it doesnt make sense..

 

[Sporko]

I couldn't agree any more if I tried

 

[QuadDamage]

Yea.. RIP Cyrax :'(

 

[UsedForGlue]

Yea your probably right bro. I usually get mine broken 90% of the time even online, but its the 10% that could make a difference if we had the bomb trap back. I think thats a fair trade off. Still, i really think they have gone the wrong way about it. If they were going to nerf the bomb trap i see no need to nerf the command throw. It should be one nerf or the other, not both, it doesnt make sense..

I dont see the point in nerfing both the grab and bomb trap.

Personally I think it would have been better to nerf the grab, making it tough to get if the opponent knows your doing it, and keeping the bomb trap.

A simple answer to the bomb trap would be to scale the damage after a bomb, giving your bomb trap 25% for example, and not scaling 60% or other crazy damage outputs.

 

[TONY-T]

I dont see the point in nerfing both the grab and bomb trap.

Personally I think it would have been better to nerf the grab, making it tough to get if the opponent knows your doing it, and keeping the bomb trap.

A simple answer to the bomb trap would be to scale the damage after a bomb, giving your bomb trap 25% for example, and not scaling 60% or other crazy damage outputs.

Yea i agree. One nerf or the other, but not both.


On a side note, im starting to think human cyrax might actually be better against certain characters! Infact, he may even be better then robot cyrax! His teleport has some sort of invincibility upon reapearing on the other side. Ive had my opponents moves go right through me as if i wasnt there and i was able to counter with full combo.

Unfortunately my PS3 just YLOD on me and i wasnt able to test it further. But if this is true, then this could make his teleport the best in the game as it will force mixups.

Also for those of you who dont know, you can still do the standard 1 bar combo with human cyrax, eg.

uf+2, 2,1~EXbomb, midbomb, uppercut, b+2, 1,2,1~ragdoll.... 59%

The only difference is the timing for throwing out the midbomb and uppercut is very strict. The uppercut hits lower because of the slow recovery of the midbomb. However if you do hit the uppercut there pretty much guaranteed to explode off the bomb. If your playing online and you have a small amount of lag , its near impossible to do though.

I will test further once i get my ps3 back from the workshop. hopefully this weekend.

 

[Zebster]

I say bring back the bomb trap..

"pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@PerfectLegend the bomb traps are still there. they just have ways out of them. ull have to know the correct way past it and read right.

 

[Leonkiller]

i cant understand why there was even a problem with the bomb trap. Every character has their high damaging combos without using a meter. Cyrax only had one and that was the bomb trap. And my other question why do u have breakers in this game for? Annd you shouldnt even be getting cought in the CG. I honestly believed thats how he was suppoust to be played cause Cyrax gets raped whole round the only chance he has if he pulls that bomb trap for anything else u need meter. Than make his xray more 30% or at plz because otherwise they made a 60% combo in to what 14%? he also the worst teleport in the game

 

[THTB]

I think command throw should no longer really change. Maybe a lower break window, like Sporko said, but that's it. Cyrax isn't high/low mixups up close. He's about basing his game around the command throw to get the opponent to want to avoid it, setting up everything else.

Cyrax has 2 great things about him...he is among the scariest characters to trade projectiles with, if not the scariest, and his command throw gives him some form of offense on an otherwise barren mixup game.

EDIT: So Cyrax still has bomb traps, but now there's escape methods? Hell...then keep the command throw the way it is.

 

[Zebster]

EDIT: So Cyrax still has bomb traps, but now there's escape methods? Hell...then keep the command throw the way it is.

Besides this, he has other bomb traps that don't rely on the command grab and the cyrax players need to take advantage of that.

 

[THTB]

Nice...I haven't kept up with Cyrax too much past the command throw bomb trap. Good to hear he still has viable setups with bombs outside of the command throw. That made him so fun to play with and against in UMK3.

 

[colt]

The goal from the beginning was for Cyrax to have various strategic planning and traps. With theseyou can get your opponent roped into stuff that could lead to big damage combos and resets. He had and still has that. He was never intended to have inescapable/unavoidable damage that would do 35-100% damage.

No, he isn't going to have a throw that does between 14 and 100% damage, sorry.

Complain again about it after you have had the time to really play with it. After you have the actual patch in hand and are using him in practical gameplay. ThrophyClub had what?, hours with the patched game and adjusted fine.

 

[STORMS]

The goal from the beginning was for Cyrax to have various strategic planning and traps you can get your opponent roped into that could lead to big damage combos and resets. He has and still has that. He was never intended to have inescapable unavoidable damage that would do 35-100% damage.

No, he isn't going to have a throw that does between 14 and 100% damage. sorry.

Complain again about it after you have had to time to really play with it. After you have the actual patch in hand and are using him in practical gameplay. ThrophyClub had what?, hours with the patched game and adjusted fine.

This ^.

 

[Sporko]

I think the misconception here is that I'm complaining about bomb trap being gone. Frankly I've anticipated bomb traps removal since I found out about it. My complaint is STRICTLY about the command grab and how I feel it has become a near useless tool. I feel it's just going to be another move on the movelist that never sees the light of day. As it is, I just use regular throw now instead, at least regular throw is a 50/50.

 

[KTH]

The goal from the beginning was for Cyrax to have various strategic planning and traps. With theseyou can get your opponent roped into stuff that could lead to big damage combos and resets. He had and still has that. He was never intended to have inescapable/unavoidable damage that would do 35-100% damage.

No, he isn't going to have a throw that does between 14 and 100% damage, sorry.

Complain again about it after you have had the time to really play with it. After you have the actual patch in hand and are using him in practical gameplay. ThrophyClub had what?, hours with the patched game and adjusted fine.

Define "adjusted fine". Of course he's going to adjust and look decent. Let me ask you this. how did he place in the tournament??? I didn't even check but I can guess not top 10. At the end of the day, the tournament results speak volume. With the patch, all top 8 will have kano/kunglao/raiden/... No cyrax. Sorry.

 

[Sultani]

Frankly I don't feel it matters if you "surprise" your opponent with it, or if they're not ready for it. It is slow enough where you can not be expecting it, and stilll be able to break it on reaction. I fear that, offline, this move has been neutered to the point of complete uselessness.

I completely agree, and this is one of the things I brought up when talk first started about nerfing it. The CG does a very small amount of damage. If it doesn't set up giving cyrax an advantage, which effectively just turned into "setting up the bomb trap," then there's absolutely no reason at all to ever even use it. Even if it doesn't get teched, why on earth would you use it?

The tech windows were changed and the damage reset was as well. This is perfectly fine. But with thse two things in place, why does it make sense to take out the bomb trap entirely?

It's not like you can break other characters big combos by teching the starting hits and saving your meter. These corrections are completely overkill..

It's too bad that NRS can't figure out that making a mechanic change that fixes something DOESN'T mean they need to further correct something that's already going to be fixed.

Hell, I wish I could tech the first hits of Ermac's 47% combo without using my meter to break it. Actually, scratch that... Give me the ability to do that, AND take it out of the game completely! yea! that makes sense!

Seriously.... What's hard to understand about this? You don't need to take something completely out of a game if you've already made two corrections to fix it....

I think boardwalk in monopoly takes in too much money and it's imbalanced. solution, make it take in less money. Not a solution - make it take in less money and also remove it from the board.
@ colt: What exactly about a throw that is now the easiest to tech in the entire game, plus a following combo consisting almost entirely of breakable strikes is "guaranteed damage?"

that's like saying, "sorry Ermac isn't going to have a b + fp that's guaranteed 43 - 47% damage."

Does that make sense? no it doesn't... neither does claiming that a command throw is guaranteed anything.
sigh....