Question Crossover JIP after B1,2?

Discussion in 'Sub-Zero' started by GoodLifeGodLike, Jan 6, 2012.

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  1. Somberness

    Somberness Lights Staff Member

    It is +50 when cancelled into a special so it does. Because it isn't the end of a string, you can continue the combo if you cancel the x-ray fast enough. I've actually complete Sub-Zero's frame data but I'm not going to post anything that long without being able to edit posts.
    Seapeople likes this.
  2. Seapeople

    Seapeople This one's for you

    @STORMS!!!!! Oh wait...mentions are gone for now too :(

    Good stuff though Somber

    Edit: I can edit my posts lol
  3. Bidu

    Bidu Active Member

    PSN:
    FabioBidu
    Lol, yeah lot of changes this week at TYM.

    Hey, Sea! Good mirror matches we had couple times! :D
    Seapeople likes this.
  4. Seapeople

    Seapeople This one's for you

    Yeah man! I hate Raiden lol...Cyblax coming at you next time :)
  5. Bidu

    Bidu Active Member

    PSN:
    FabioBidu
    Uh oh... lol there's a lot of difference between the robot and the human, right? Never played against the human version...

    Raiden is like my 2nd char. Only recently I started playing with him, but I'm loving it. Cool tool to handle the zonners, lol.
  6. Seapeople

    Seapeople This one's for you

    Yeah, human Cyrax is amazing. Invinsible teleport and breaker traps ftw
  7. Bidu

    Bidu Active Member

    PSN:
    FabioBidu
    Unpunishable teleport??!
  8. Roko1985

    Roko1985 Noob with luck!

    You don't get it! What if they block that 212...what can you do next? Ice clone? Run after them? After b12 you get free JIP into another b12 which is hittconfirm into ice ball and then the same situation. B121 gives a push back and you don't want that. Let say you do 22 freeze and then b12 jip b12(blocked) you can go for 21, because they will wait for that b121 or b12 freeze or b124(into db3 reset if you want). If the 12 is blocked you can go for 121 freze(not a good idea), ice clone, d4 preassure or 1, b12 (because they will wait for to do something after 21)into whatever you want(you can skip the 1 if you want). If the 21 hit you can hittconfirm into freeze into combo or 21 on hit gives you huge advantage for Crossup Jip(not easy to do wake up attack) into another b12 into whatever you want or you can try some b2 or db3 reset. Try it.......
  9. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    I don't think you understand. b1,2,1 puts you in roughly the same situation and mixups with more guaranteed damage. 2,1 and b1,2 are both neutral on block... so they can poke you out of your next string if they have a good d1 or d3.
    the normal JiP b1,2~freeze into JiP b1,2,1 dash throw nets roughly 40%. Once they try to tech this... then it goes higher. You are trying to use online shenanigans that are easily poke able online and offline while giving up damage to do so.
  10. Roko1985

    Roko1985 Noob with luck!

    I not givin up damage. Count........Is the throw not escapeble!?!?!?!?The dieffrent between b12 and b121 is the second 1(probably 2 or 3 percent damadge) that you get push and you can only go for d4 or 21, but the b12 gives you JIP remember JJIIPP into hitconfirm string that can reset you. And the way you play your Sub i am 100% sure that if i JIP you and B12(you block) you will not even thinking poking me, and if you try it will be to late and you will eat the 12. The same if you try to jump back. I am not going to do that every time so it is a mind game. Sometimes i will finish the b121(then 12 or d4 preassure or throw) or b124 or b12 ice clone dash to preassure or freeze or slide or you name it. You will think twice before poking me. You play to safe your Sub. And what if you poke me? You get 2 percent damage and i can put an ice clone........i am thinking now and............i will take the risk. Remember .....if the 21 hit you have JIP(crossover JIP) that makes not easy to do wake up attack or if they play dead do db3. I wish i can play you sometimes............
  11. OnizukaPM

    OnizukaPM Active Member

    i`ll ask here
    if i break the throw im at adv/disadv?
  12. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    the last 1 is the most damaging hit of the string. I'm just telling you that the way you play is no different, except you are giving up guaranteed damage for the same mix up. the JiP doesn't really lead into anything different than the stagger state of the last 1. and yes... if you b1,2 i'm going to poke ANYWAY, because the rest of the string is interruptible on block. The only real string I have to fear is 2,1,4 and 2,2,4 on block, because it is not interruptible.
    In reality the way you are playing is very reckless and unsafe. b1,2 is 0 on block, and far enough on push that Sub can't d3 or d1, so he will get poked out of any continuing pressure. That is a fact backed up by the frame data.

    You are theory fighting me, which doesn't work in any argument. Fact of the matter is, if I land his BnB with b1,2,1 i get roughly 40% damage landing the throw and more if I read them doing anything else. If I read wrong I get the SAME pressure you are describing with MORE damage while being safe.
  13. Roko1985

    Roko1985 Noob with luck!

    If you want that throw that much then do JIP throw. The throw is for mix up....let say throw, next time 21 or d4. About poking the b121 string after the 2........it works on paper, but never happen to me(if you think that they will poke then freeze them or En slide them.......it is a guessing game).What happen most of the time is that the first time they will try to do something after b12 and the JIP into b12 freeze catches them. You do that again and they block the b12....now is your turn to choose. Freeze,Ice clone, slide , finish the b121/4 or go for 21. Just one question............did you ever try this in a real mach?
  14. RedRaptor10

    RedRaptor10 Slips' Protégé Premium Supporter

    B1, 2, Ice Clone has caught my opponent a few times trying to poke out of B1, 2, 1 on block. You shouldn't end a blockstring with Ice Ball since you are very punishable if blocked.
  15. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    dude... you aren't hearing me. Same mixup.... more damage. I'm not arguing that what you are doing works. I'm giving you the same mixup potential with a more damaging result. plain and simple.

    and to answer no... I simply use b1,2,1~throw as the bnb... and if I smell they are going to try and tech the throw or duck or jump... i'll 2,1 or 2,2 into either freeze BnB if it lands... or clone if they did block. Sometimes i'll dash in and d4, but normally this takes a few matches to condition. The throw itself is the entire mixup. You can't block and tech the throw... so they either are going to eat the throw for 12% or they are going to eat the follow up BnB for a huge % more. Thats the guessing game you want.

    b1,2~clone has the clone come out immediately after the shiv lands.... if you don't clone then... i can poke in enough time for the spin around whatever comes next. There is quite a gap there for me to get out a quick d1.
  16. Seapeople

    Seapeople This one's for you

    b121/b124 can be interrupted by pretty much anything. In a Sub mirror, there's a ton of time to punish it with 22.

    In fact, you might even be able to watch the last hit come out and then punish on reaction....It's that slow lol
  17. Panque

    Panque Random foreign guy

    b124 can be interrupted by a 22? Damn, I thought it was fast enough to escape big punishes.
  18. Bidu

    Bidu Active Member

    PSN:
    FabioBidu
    You can even jump out of the last hit of b121 or b124.
  19. MK Kobra

    MK Kobra Member

    XBL:
    MK Kobra
    Lol I don't think YOU get it. B121 and B12 give the same mix-up possibilities, except you're not giving up any damage. I'm not saying for for 212. If you think they're gonna try to tech the throw or jump out, then you go for 21. If it hits, you hit confirm 212 into a combo. If they block the 21, you can continue pressure, cancel into clone,w/e. you can do b2 and ice puddle shenanigans after b121 as well.
  20. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme @MK_BeefSupreme Premium Supporter

    You can't hit confirm 21 into 212, you must commit or not.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
  21. MK Kobra

    MK Kobra Member

    XBL:
    MK Kobra
    I'm pretty sure I've done it before. Either way, you can still d4 into slide or d4 ex freeze after a 21, so you still get something.
  22. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    wait? what? If the first 2 hits... then you can HC. That is what HC is made of. If the first 2 HITS then you finish the string... if it doesn't you stop it. It isn't that hard.
  23. MK Kobra

    MK Kobra Member

    XBL:
    MK Kobra
    Lol maybe he is referring to if just the 1 in 21 hits? I don't know but either way, 212 is hit confirmable.
  24. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Lead Moderator Staff Member

    Lol. Look fellas, your arguing over minutia. Just about any decent mixup Sub has in his toolbox is likely to work at least once. The importaant thing is to play the player. That will tell you what you can and can't get away with. As long as you stay unpredicable and make good guesses any mixup can work. Jump when they think your gonna slide, slide when they think your gonna jump. Throw when they think your gonna attack, attack when they think your gonna throw. Simplistic analogies but essentially the type of decisions you want to put your opponent to. Bruce Lee said to be like water, flow with the fight. Don't think rigidly, don't be stuck in using patterns. Do the right move at the right time. See the big picture, but never at the expense of the moment your in.

    Lol I should write "The Tao of Subzero"
    salvificblood and Sub_Crash4 like this.
  25. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme @MK_BeefSupreme Premium Supporter

    Lol, yeah that's totally I meant. Speaking in the context of pressuring with 21 and confirming between 1 and the last 2 in 212. But, Quite frankly I think I drew the wrong conclusion from his post. As im sure he meant confirming 2 into 1 and so on, and I just read it wrong. PLUS, I just re read my post and I came off like a total douche, not my intentions in the slightest, and I totally apologize for derailing the thread. /fail
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