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Question Crossover JIP after B1,2?

Can someone explain to me how this combo is strung along? Forget the X-ray cancel, but how is Scorpion stunned long enough to allow a crossover JIP to contine the combo?


Edit: I can only surmise that the X-ray after B1,2 allows Sub to come out of the fixed animation of b1,2 faster thus allowing the jip to hit? Herp derp.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
There isn't complete frame data on Sub Zero yet. I don't think you can actually complete this combo if a human blocks it. I'll test it out though. The X-ray cancel might do wonky things to the game... never know.
 

SunnyD

24 Low Hat!
I think its actually possible, but if it is, not only is it useless (xray will do more damage) but the timing is REALLY specific. You gotta cancel as fast as you can and jump as fast as you can to hit them as fast as you can. When we get complete frame data then we will see, but its still a worthless thing to do.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
I think its actually possible, but if it is, not only is it useless (xray will do more damage) but the timing is REALLY specific. You gotta cancel as fast as you can and jump as fast as you can to hit them as fast as you can. When we get complete frame data then we will see, but its still a worthless thing to do.
The combo in that vid does more than an X-Ray combo, because it switches sides right back into the corner. The timing isnt very strict at all.
 

Jim

Emperor of the Moon
The combo in that vid does more than an X-Ray combo, because it switches sides right back into the corner. The timing isnt very strict at all.
Not sure if you mean it does more damage than an X-Ray or does better placement than an X-Ray combo but either way that doesn't make sense. The combo does 52% JIP b1,2~freeze JIP,2,1,4~xray does 53% and you can switch sides after the freeze so the placement has no advantage. Seems to be pointlessly risky to ever do in a match.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
b12 is a safe jump, but the timing is strict.

The only reason I would Xray cancel is for the kill.
JIP 224~Xray cancel, 214~clone is 11% chip damage.
JIP 224~Xray cancel, throw is 18% and they would be really risky to tech the throw.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
b12 is a safe jump, but the timing is strict.

The only reason I would Xray cancel is for the kill.
JIP 224~Xray cancel, 214~clone is 11% chip damage.
JIP 224~Xray cancel, throw is 18% and they would be really risky to tech the throw.
I don't understand why you would EVER want to use just b1,2 to get a safe jump... when b1,2,1 will allow you full damage and a throw mixup, which puts you in the position you want.

I don't think the point is if it is good... just if the combo could be performed.... and it looks like yep.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I don't understand why you would EVER want to use just b1,2 to get a safe jump... when b1,2,1 will allow you full damage and a throw mixup, which puts you in the position you want.

I don't think the point is if it is good... just if the combo could be performed.... and it looks like yep.
I wasn't saying it's good...just explaining it
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Can someone explain to me how this combo is strung along? Forget the X-ray cancel, but how is Scorpion stunned long enough to allow a crossover JIP to contine the combo?


Edit: I can only surmise that the X-ray after B1,2 allows Sub to come out of the fixed animation of b1,2 faster thus allowing the jip to hit? Herp derp.
None of this makes any sense to me. If you need to use the xray cancel to continue the combo from B1,2(which I assume you do because it would be an infinite if you didnt.) then whats the point? That combo did 52%, while JIP,B1,2,ice blast,JIP,2,1,4,xray is 53%(and alot easier to do). Imagine using your ultra bar to do FADC's in SSF4. Thats how dumb this looks.
It makes no sense whatsoever to use an xray cancel in a combo that hits. Now maybe at the end of a match and your opponent is blocking one of your strings an xray cancel there to continue into another string for more chip might be a reason to do it, but only if the added chip would end the match......match, not round.
 

Roko1985

Put down the controller and run!
Can someone explain to me how this combo is strung along? Forget the X-ray cancel, but how is Scorpion stunned long enough to allow a crossover JIP to contine the combo?


Edit: I can only surmise that the X-ray after B1,2 allows Sub to come out of the fixed animation of b1,2 faster thus allowing the jip to hit? Herp derp.
b12 is Sub's best tool. Not many are using it, but is really really good. I will give you an example. B12 and 212 are hittconfirm strings. On a ground freezed opnent you can do JIP b12(now you have free JIP) then JIP b12:
Hitt:freeze(repead or go for combo)

Blocked:freeze(not recomending),finish b121(if hits go for d4 preassure), b121 clone, b121 slide, but what i do is going to 21(Hitt confirm)and now you have the same situation.
21 hits:212 freeze into combo
21 blocked:finish 212 into: ice clone, ice ball,slide, 21 d4(preassure) or go for 1 b12(you can take awy the 1 if you want) and now we have the same situation. It is a small vortex. I know that many will say that it is easy to get away, but it is not.In a real mach is very effective. It was game changing for me. It is a guessing game , but he has to guess more then you. You just watch you hittconfirm strings. You see that you have more options to keep him blocking then not. If you finish the b121 into d4 preassure like every sub player you get 6% more damage then b12, but with b12 you get Free JIP and the same cheep damage and better positioning. Those block strings carry the oponent to the wall where you have more options. Any time you wanna go back to zoning just put an ice clone.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
b12 is Sub's best tool. Not many are using it, but is really really good. I will give you an example. B12 and 212 are hittconfirm strings. On a ground freezed opnent you can do JIP b12(now you have free JIP) then JIP b12:
Hitt:freeze(repead or go for combo)

Blocked:freeze(not recomending),finish b121(if hits go for d4 preassure), b121 clone, b121 slide, but what i do is going to 21(Hitt confirm)and now you have the same situation.
21 hits:212 freeze into combo
21 blocked:finish 212 into: ice clone, ice ball,slide, 21 d4(preassure) or go for 1 b12(you can take awy the 1 if you want) and now we have the same situation. It is a small vortex. I know that many will say that it is easy to get away, but it is not.In a real mach is very effective. It was game changing for me. It is a guessing game , but he has to guess more then you. You just watch you hittconfirm strings. You see that you have more options to keep him blocking then not. If you finish the b121 into d4 preassure like every sub player you get 6% more damage then b12, but with b12 you get Free JIP and the same cheep damage and better positioning. Those block strings carry the oponent to the wall where you have more options. Any time you wanna go back to zoning just put an ice clone.
I used to use B12 all the time... but I only used it in the bnb combo. So I was always just fishing for JIPs. Using B12 to start 21, 21 throw 21 d4 slide 21 d4 enfreeze into combo really changed sub for me. I think I got a lot better just from reading how to use the B12 and 21 pressure. XD
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I'm not sure... but I don't think b1,2 gives a free JiP.... Maybe no one is catching on... but if someone can confirm it that would be nice. If not i'll try to do it sometime when I find someone who will cooperate :)
 

MK Kobra

Noob
Yes b12 gives a free jip, but why wouldn't you just finish the string? After b121, just go for the 212. If they try to do anything besides block, they'll get rejuggled. Once they start respecting the pressure, you can get a jip after b121, without having to give up damage.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Yes b12 gives a free jip, but why wouldn't you just finish the string? After b121, just go for the 212. If they try to do anything besides block, they'll get rejuggled. Once they start respecting the pressure, you can get a jip after b121, without having to give up damage.
I agree. To me the entire string gives a better mixup then cutting it short. I've had great success getting my b1,2,1 damage, then dash in and throw setups. After like twice people start to either duck or attempt to tech...and then I get more damage. Whether anyone admits it or not.... being thrown in super annoying.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I use b12 if my opponent is about to get a breaker. That way you still get unbreakable chip and pressure.
 

MK Kobra

Noob
Yeah throws are a good way to get people to try to do something after b121. The mixups you get after b121 are so much better than getting a free jip off b12. Yeah seapeople, that's probably the only good use for it. besides throw mixups, another thing I do is d4 and f4 after b121. Once they try to crouch block the d4, I start going for f4 freeze.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
in my mind, the throw is the mixup in that string. Sub wants to keep his opponent in that JiP range, and a block string into clone pushes him away. In the corner yeah, I do the 2,1,2~clone stuff, but mid screen i'd rather take my chances with 2,1 or d4 or 2,2 or a throw. I've reverted back to the 2,2 followed by a 2,2 and it works beautifully at max range, where everyone d1 (sans kitana) whiffs.
I think block strings into clones are a little TOO safe at mid screen and ultimately put Sub at a disadvantage. The closer to the corner, the more advantageous it is.

Again that is just my opinion and how I play. I've seen much success from how Kobra plays as well.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
The use of b121 has pretty much become SZ's bnb after a freeze UNLESS you are looking for a little extra damage or pushing your opponent into the corner then 214 slide could be your combo of choice (not when you're in the corner but a distance where 214 would push your opponent into the corner). I like Kobra's approach with throwing in a d4 every one in a while then mixing the f4 in when they start blocking low
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
I've been throwing, in sweep after b121 lately. Nice way to check them to block low. Plus you get a knock down and can set a talk clone up RIGHT next to them. Obviously situational, but I've seen some success with it lately.