I'd say 5-5 against SZ. Liu has no reason to do Low fireball, he can just zone with high or iafb. (If he goes low Liu won't recover in time to block the ice) Of course SZ can EX Slide to get in, but it can still be blocked. Up close Liu has faster strings. SZ might be able to keep him away with his Ice clone, but he risks eating one thing or another if predictable.
I dunno. I think this MU could easily be 5-5. IAFB's recover quick enough to beat out Ice Ball at surprising ranges. Plus you can use them to hop over Ice Slide attempts and proceed to punish. As long as Liu zones the whole match, he wins. The only thing Sub really has over Liu is the corner. But the same can be said for Liu too.
Most zoning is irrelevant. It's too easy to dash block in. And you can't fireball at all against Sub, and your IAFBs aren't fast enough to prevent me dashing in. You are also stationary, so as I approach you have to be wary of approach because I have better ranged footsies, and ice clone. If you fall back, you are still doing minimal damage and getting closer to the corner. Again, LK's zoning is irrelevant. Rain's lightning is so fast I trade with your ground projectiles and tele in, and you don't want any of Rain when he has frame advantage. Rain really only loses to Freddy and Kabal at the highest level. @Zyns Read above
I'm not a god tier kabal but I feel the Lui Kang match up is either 6/4 Kabal, which isn't bad. The high hitbox and the fact you need to take way more risks than kabal makes it 6/4 imo. Lui Kang can b321, if timed right, and 213 out of Kabal's pressure. That is if Kabal doesn't use f4 or 2 after a cancel. The safest bet would be to use 213 though since b3 is 10frames and 2 is 8. He can keep up with kabal's zoning with his low fireball. When LK does a low fireball he will just duck the iagb. His high hitbox is a big issue here because Kabal has a lot more options in pressure. You need to be able to make good reads with LK. If you can get into the Kabal's head and make him mess up, it will be easier for you. Make Kabal respect you and you'll limit him so much, especially on wake up.
I've never seen a SZ try and dash block, but if they're not throwing any ice from about full screen Liu has the Low option, then air. Liu also has a great AA, and wonderful pressure. Again, I'd say 5-5.
If you're jumping you're doing it wrong. And just because you haven't played a SZ who dash blocks doesn't mean people don't do it lol. SZ needs to get to 3/4 screen from you and he has ground control. If you are IAFBing, then I'm going to duck your stuff while advancing. No damage to me, and you're closer to the corner. SZ definitely has the advantage in my opinion.
I agree with pretty much everything. Kabal's pressure is ridiculous, but we have two really good strings that he has to respect to some extent. His iaGB is nullified with Low Fireball, Saw can be Fly Kicked, but KUH-BAWL still has the upper-hand. I think he's an upgraded Liu in all honesty.
K. You asked my opinion, I gave it to you. 6-4 Sub. Your zoning isn't good enough to keep me locked down at full screen, and any closer and it's my game.
I did ask your opinion, I'm not flaming or anything. I'm simply saying I disagree, and the reasons why.
Keep in mind i play both Sub and Kang and i think its 5-5. Ice balls are too slow man, trust me. If you are really determined, you can play @Zyns online
Against Sub-Zero, the worst decision you can make is rush SZ down. His clones keep him out and it isn't worth your meter to get 7%/18% worth of damage + ice clone setup again. So Liu is restricted to zoning, Liu beats SZ's zoning game. If you do standing high fireballs you can block the freezes, but you can't block slides. If you do low fireballs you'll get frozen and if SZ uses EX slide you'll get hit anyways. If you do IAFB's from 3/4 screen away you can block SZ's freezes and slide. This way SZ is forced to come to you and this is where Liu shines according to me. SZ jumps => AA combo into a possibility of reading a roll + clone and punishing that(back into the zoning situation) SZ has that annoying D+4 but bait that shit with DS cancel + B1 into low fireball. If Liu catches someone with a combo, you'll be out of the corner(and depending on the stage size in the other corner). Still, I think this is a 6-4 in SZ's favor. Liu wins if you have that zoning game down + excellent footsies, but SZ can be very annoying with EX freeze and his D4. You are saying that SZ won't receive any damage, but Liu is building meter while SZ is getting nothing. If you do catch Liu, there is a big possibility Liu can break. I wouldn't say Liu is useless in the corner, he can use IAFB to check SZ in case he jumps. Liu has a big range on his sweep and sweep goes straight through the clone. That and sweep is 0 on block.
I feel like the CSZ MU is at least 6-4 our advantage. To me, this seems like Liu's easiest matchup. IAFB's seem to just completely shut him down. He can't dive kick, he can't ice-ball us. Teleport isn't quick enough to do any harm (not to mention it's very punishable if we read it). Parry can mess with us a bit, but we don't even need to pressure him. The only options he seems to have for getting in on us are slide and bombs. But IAFB can hop over slide, leading to a punish, and I THINK we can Flying Kick bombs on reaction.
We control the match pretty easily, his Parry doesn't have much on us, we can abuse b312 like no tomorrow. His fastest standing jab is 9 frames, ours is 8. It's an uphill battle for CSZ, we can Parry his Divekicks too.
according to this matchup chart.....shouldnt liu be top tier?.....all his matchups seem relatively balanced
Baraka is 4-6 in Liu's favor for sure. Kang builds meter with zoning Kang beats him up close in the neutral game and carries Baraka to the corner They both own in the corner Baraka has a better poking game(6f d3 as opposed to 7f d3) Baraka has to dash block in or EX blade charge, problem is he isnt at much of an advantage at close range. His D4 and sweep can be used as footsie tools to keep him out. Baraka's moves are all so slow that Liu Kang really kills him up close, he is basically forced to poke after blocking your strings and off of that he can maybe backdash and play footsies. If he gets you in the corner he can kill though, but so can Liu. Definite 6-4 matchup for Liu.
I will now say that getting those instant air fireballs.... is key to being a really good Kang player.... it is a must to have those instant air fireballs in order to play at high level...after you have that down... you can work on rush down.... I see a big flaw in my game in zoning strategy... and I will work on it and further place higher in the next major...
It can essentially make your opponent stop jumping if you do them right and on reaction. Definitely a tool worth using.
I've come to the same conclusion, well the iafb part anyways. It is a tool that we should all put time into, as it can really make people work just to get in. (and our fast normals will show them what we can do )
I really wish it was like Kabal's back back 1 nonsense <.< But do remember, your fireballs do come out slightly faster if you do a Neutral Jump into Back Forward 1, I believe 2 frames faster. It might be harder than your diagonal back to forward, but you never know when you might need the 2 frames
KL beats LK I think but I'm not sure about the "out of 10" MU numbers. I think a good 70% of the people out there will say KL beats LK but not by much.
