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Community Liu Kang Match-up Chart

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
Reason: Updated: April 29th. 2012
The thread that Konqrr had made looks outdated, so I made this one. I will also be stating the reasons why the MU is the way it is. Well actually, I'll just be updating what you guys agree on. For now all of them are going to be 5-5.

Read:
The list layout will have Liu's number on the left and the opposing characters number on the right, then the reasons we agreed on.
For example: 3-7 vs. Kenshi (we all know why)
So Liu's number is "3" and Kenshi's number is "7", which means it's in Kenshi's favor.

Note:
Please make sure to put your reasoning down and elaborate a little.

List follows as:
5-5 vs. Scorpion
5-5 vs. Liu Kang
5-5 vs. Kung Lao

4-6 vs. Sub-Zero - When full-screen, Liu can outzone Sub with high fireballs. You can block the iceball on time, with low fireballs the freeze will get you. Sub-Zero can choose to slide under your high fireballs.
In the corner Liu is screwed and Sub can easily hide behind his popsicles once he gets the life lead.

5-5 vs. Sindel
5-5 vs. Ermac
5-5 vs. Reptile
5-5 vs. Kitana
5-5 vs. Johnny Cage
5-5 vs. Jade
5-5 vs. Mileena
5-5 vs. Nightwolf

6-4 vs. Cyrax - Liu can just keep outzoning Cyrax, he doesn't have to fear the bombs or the nets. Just keep the the fireball high whenever that little door of his opens(maybe get in with a flying kick if you know he'll throw a bomb), you can block the net in time. Once you have the life lead and the Cyrax player realizes he can't beat you full screen he will have to come at you. This is where the footsies of both players come into play.

4-6 vs. Noob Saibot - Reason being other than zoned, reading correctly on his game will give you the edge you need in this fight. When getting close most Noobs will Up-Kick. Dragon stance sweep or Dragon Stance dash forward b+312 will exploit many of his move sets. Teleport is very risky, you can Dragon Stance BnB for 40%. Baiting jumps, baiting wake ups such as up shadow kick or running man (which does indeed have more invincibility) using those footsie tools, etc.

5-5 vs. Smoke

5-5 vs. Sektor - Reason being both characters have really good zoning tools, from full screen both players will trade fireballs iafb vs Missles, Up Missiles will lose to Flying Kick. (timing is crucial) iafb will not lose to Teleport-uppercut, considering the reaction time, if Sektor assumes, teleport will hit me out of it (preemptive). Liu's rush game is over whelming, even though Sektor has a standing 6 frame and d+1, blocking low will limit these options and give you a d+3 to start the offensive again. His fake out kick can be deceiving but like all stance moves you can hit him out of it. Note: that he can dash out for whiff punishing.

4-6 vs. Sonya Blade - Still need input, but understandable.
5-5 vs. Jax
5-5 vs. Kano

6-4 vs. Stryker - (Possibly a 5.5 - 4.5) Liu's fireballs are better than Stryker's grenade toss in speed and recovery (though Stryker's grenads do more damage) Liu can evade gun shot by doing low fireballs. Both can armor through eachother's projectiles (Stryker has more damage). EX Roll Toss blows up all of Liu's Dragon Stance options. Faster normals make this an uphill battle for Stryker. Just Gun Cancels and EX Roll Toss don't cut it. Liu's rushdown and faster zoning give him the advantage.

5-5 vs. Shang Tsung - Though you can interrupt his zoning to a certain extent, his pressure outweighs Liu's in terms of traps, other than that you have to play very cautiously midscreen. Up close its advisable to use 50/50 ex low fireballs and overhead. Baiting d1, and going through skulls with Flying Kick and midscreen iafbs must be on point.

5-5 vs. Baraka
5-5 vs. Kabal
5-5 vs. Raiden
5-5 vs. Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs. Sheeva
5-5 vs. Quan Chi
5-5 vs. Skarlet
5-5 vs. Kenshi
5-5 vs. Rain
4-6 vs. Freddy Krueger - Freddy is one of the best zoners in the game, which means Liu has to bring his head into the game as well. Uphill battle for Liu.


I suppose the only difference is that you can click on this thread and look at the OP. (and to see if you agree or not)

PS:Once this thread has more input and starts to get clustered, I'll edit it to make it easier to view.

Discuss!
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
The only input I can give is that both Sindel and Kitana are at 5-5 with him
Yea, they all can hold their own in zoning. I don't know how Sindel's pressure is, but I'm guessing pretty formidable (I've gone against a few). Kitana's pressure? Wouldn't know. Most just zone and combo when they get a hit.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
I would put Liu Kang v.s. Stryker as 6-4 to be honest.

I just think that given Liu Kang's fireballs are better than Stryker's grenades with better speed and recovery, gun shot is evaded by throwing a low fireball and superior normals make this an uphill battle for Stryker, Stryker literally has to chase Liu Kang down and then when he gets in he has to contend with a character with faster normals, better mix ups, and quick advancing normals that mostly hit mid, with the exception of one of Liu Kang's strings.

Gun cancels and ex roll toss isn't enough to make it 5-5 in my opinion.

It's totally winnable for Stryker, just not even in my opinion.


Sheeva v.s. Liu Kang I'd put at 6-4 in Liu Kang's favor too for similar reasons to why Stryker is 6-4.

I agree with Jade and Rain at 5-5 though.
 

Death

Noob
The input I can give is he goes 5-5 with Mileena and loses 4-6 to Sonya

Take Kratos out of the MU chart too.
 

LEGEND

YES!
I would put Liu Kang v.s. Stryker as 6-4 to be honest.

I just think that given Liu Kang's fireballs are better than Stryker's grenades with better speed and recovery, gun shot is evaded by throwing a low fireball and superior normals make this an uphill battle for Stryker, Stryker literally has to chase Liu Kang down and then when he gets in he has to contend with a character with faster normals, better mix ups, and quick advancing normals that mostly hit mid, with the exception of one of Liu Kang's strings.

Gun cancels and ex roll toss isn't enough to make it 5-5 in my opinion.
grenade trades with fireballs and do more damage, both players can armor through for a better trade but once again stryker's does more damage, the footsies game is pretty even due to stryker's 3 having a slight low-crush property and good range and EX roll toss blows up all Dragon stance options. Stryker's anti wake-up game also gives Liu problems

Liu's advantages are his rushdown and corner game, possible 6-4 Liu (marked at 5.5-4.5 personally)
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
I would put Liu Kang v.s. Stryker as 6-4 to be honest.

I just think that given Liu Kang's fireballs are better than Stryker's grenades with better speed and recovery, gun shot is evaded by throwing a low fireball and superior normals make this an uphill battle for Stryker, Stryker literally has to chase Liu Kang down and then when he gets in he has to contend with a character with faster normals, better mix ups, and quick advancing normals that mostly hit mid, with the exception of one of Liu Kang's strings.

Gun cancels and ex roll toss isn't enough to make it 5-5 in my opinion.

It's totally winnable for Stryker, just not even in my opinion.


Sheeva v.s. Liu Kang I'd put at 6-4 in Liu Kang's favor too for similar reasons to why Stryker is 6-4.

I agree with Jade and Rain at 5-5 though.
Agreed, Stryker does have the option to EX Roll, but that takes meter. (burned if blocked too) updating.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
grenade trades with fireballs and do more damage, both players can armor through for a better trade but once again stryker's does more damage, the footsies game is pretty even due to stryker's 3 having a slight low-crush property and good range and EX roll toss blows up all Dragon stance options. Stryker's anti wake-up game also gives Liu problems

Liu's advantages are his rushdown and corner game, possible 6-4 Liu (marked at 5.5-4.5 personally)
So we essentially agree, overall. The grenades do like 8-9% damage I believe whereas his fireballs do around 6%, the major issue I've been observing seems to be that Liu Kang often times has enough time to recover and block more often than not when the projectiles are thrown at the same time (unless I'm throwing them at the wrong time, but I don't think I am).

Ex roll toss with it's 16% damage is nice, though I don't often run into opportunities to blow up Dragon stance with it, I'm not going to dispute it as a tool in the fight.


I like 3's stagger and reset properties(I usually use 4 on crouched opponents, might experiment more with that, though it's general seemingly slow speed and start up worries me), I don't mean to give the impression that Stryker's helpless up close, just that it's harder for him.

LETHAL LEGEND Espio872

what shall we agree on? I'd say 5.5 - 4.5 is reasonable.
I don't have a problem with it being listed as 5.5-4.5, but I do still think it's 6-4. I guess that's a suitable compromise.

It's winnable either way and it still establishes that Liu Kang has an advantage over Stryker. I'm a bit meh on the decimals overall, but it's not a big deal.
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
I think it's 6-4 Sub's advantage, and 5.5-4.5 Noob's advantage.

I agree with 5-5 Rain.
I agree, when Sub is played correctly, it's an uphill battle for Liu. Liu can't trade projectiles either.

I'd like to try and stay away from decimals, so I'd say 4-6 for Noob. Liu struggles against heavy zoners, and Noob fits that description perfectly.

I'd say Liu Kang vs. Freddy is 6:4 in favor of Freddy.
I definitely agree, Freddy is one of the best zoners in the game, Liu has major troubles against this dream boy.
 

XBlades

To Achieve, You must Believe
I'd say Liu Kang vs. Freddy is 6:4 in favor of Freddy.
This i can understand from an outside perspective... though there are many flaws in this match up such as freddie can be exploited up close, reading teleports and constantly working the mix ups, however Liu will be zoned out for a long period of time if the Liu player does not catch on to patterns/strategy/etc. Liu player must be very adaptive and use a good sense of intuitive play to change the pace of the match.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
This i can understand from an outside perspective... though there are many flaws in this match up such as freddie can be exploited up close, reading teleports and constantly working the mix ups, however Liu will be zoned out for a long period of time if the Liu player does not catch on to patterns/strategy/etc. Liu player must be very adaptive and use a good sense of intuitive play to change the pace of the match.
I think the match could be even in a very small stage like The Pit, but in larger stages Liu Kang has difficulties pinning down Freddy. Liu Kang's offense is definitely good enough to keep the match up very competitive. He also has decent fireballs, but they are irrelevant unless he has a large life lead.
 

NickDaGreek1983

Oh, my days !
I definitely agree on most match-ups, I'd have to add the following though:
4,5 - 5,5 Cyrax, Kenshi & Sub Zero (resets+bomb traps - Armored specials as anti-pressure for Kang's close-up game, plus zoning - Ice clones+bad Anti-corner Sub game for Liu respectively)
5,5 - 4,5 Cage, Jax (Cage+Jax can be out-zoned & Liu can match their close-up pressure game, Maybe I'm leaning more to 5-5 for Jax due to his ground pound corner resets and armored specials but, again iafb-low fireballs mixups is the answer)
6,0 - 4,0 Baraka & Sheeva (same as Cage-Jax but tougher match up for the "up-close only" Tarkatan and Sheeva's limited pressure options & her big hitbox being a disadvantage against Kang's zoning).
I really don't know about Saibot being 4-6... Maybe 3,5-6,5 in Noob's favor but again, depends on the stage someone's playing...
 
6-4 Scorpion
6-4 Quan Chi
6-4 Cyber-Sub
4-6 Smoke

The scorpion match up has to be Liu's favor. Every thing Liu does is neutral on block and scorpions pokes are garbage. His only real options to escape pressure as far as I know, are ex-spear and D+1. If LK reads either of them and blocks, B+312 is a free combo.

Quan chi, I don't know. I think it is 6-4. His pokes aren't great either, but he has a D+3 and an uppercut. I just know I have beaten up on a quan chi friend of mine pretty badly with kang. Quan's real downfall may be his wake up game.

Cyber-sub being 6-4 is theoretical. Kang can parry Cyber's dive-kick. CSZ can't parry B+312 or F4. Kang might be at a slight advantage when they are close to one another. From full screen, the advantage definately goes to kang. CSZ doesn't have armour to go through projectiles. His teleport is too slow to avoid zoning reliably. IAFB's will control the space CSZ wants to use to dive kick, forcing him to dash block to get in.

I think the Kang-Smoke match-up favors smoke, but it could be 5-5 also. I'm hoping for more input on this from others.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I definitely agree on most match-ups, I'd have to add the following though:
4,5 - 5,5 Cyrax, Kenshi & Sub Zero (resets+bomb traps - Armored specials as anti-pressure for Kang's close-up game, plus zoning - Ice clones+bad Anti-corner Sub game for Liu respectively)
People really shouldn't be so fast to call every Cyrax matchup unfavorable just because of resets. Imho Cyrax vs Kang is 6-4 in Kang's favor or 5-5 at best, but I need more experience to give a good answer. Liu Kang puts his zoning on the screen too quickly for Cyrax to get in and stay in.
 
I definitely agree on most match-ups, I'd have to add the following though:
4,5 - 5,5 Cyrax, Kenshi & Sub Zero (resets+bomb traps - Armored specials as anti-pressure for Kang's close-up game, plus zoning - Ice clones+bad Anti-corner Sub game for Liu respectively)
5,5 - 4,5 Cage, Jax (Cage+Jax can be out-zoned & Liu can match their close-up pressure game, Maybe I'm leaning more to 5-5 for Jax due to his ground pound corner resets and armored specials but, again iafb-low fireballs mixups is the answer)
6,0 - 4,0 Baraka & Sheeva (same as Cage-Jax but tougher match up for the "up-close only" Tarkatan and Sheeva's limited pressure options & her big hitbox being a disadvantage against Kang's zoning).
I really don't know about Saibot being 4-6... Maybe 3,5-6,5 in Noob's favor but again, depends on the stage someone's playing...
For the record I disagree with practically all of these.

Maybe I can see the logic with Kang out-zoning cage, but cage out rushes kang... so they both have strengths from their sides of the screen, so that sounds like a 5-5 to me.

I am shocked you think you can zone out Jax with Kang, my mind is literally blown right now. The dude has a fast projectile, ground pound cancels, and armor which is safe on block.

Cyrax is a 5-5 as well. You can't just say "resets+bomb traps" as a reason for him winning a match up. If that was the case, then he'd 6-4 the entire cast. Cyrax doesn't have any advantages that are specific to the Kang match up.

If I gave you then benefit of the doubt and said Noob was 3.5-6.5 (even though I think it is 4-6 or closer to even), then I'm pretty sure Kenshi needs to be 3.5-6.5 as well. I'll give no argument against your sub-zero, baraka, and sheeva numbers.
 

NickDaGreek1983

Oh, my days !
For the record I disagree with practically all of these.

Maybe I can see the logic with Kang out-zoning cage, but cage out rushes kang... so they both have strengths from their sides of the screen, so that sounds like a 5-5 to me.

I am shocked you think you can zone out Jax with Kang, my mind is literally blown right now. The dude has a fast projectile, ground pound cancels, and armor which is safe on block.

Cyrax is a 5-5 as well. You can't just say "resets+bomb traps" as a reason for him winning a match up. If that was the case, then he'd 6-4 the entire cast. Cyrax doesn't have any advantages that are specific to the Kang match up.

If I gave you then benefit of the doubt and said Noob was 3.5-6.5 (even though I think it is 4-6 or closer to even), then I'm pretty sure Kenshi needs to be 3.5-6.5 as well. I'll give no argument against your sub-zero, baraka, and sheeva numbers.
I see your point my friend. On the Cage match-up I just see Kang out-zoning quite comfortably Cage who only can answer by using red shadow kick for 10-12% (Don't know the exact damage) and a bar of meter, while when you compare up-close pressure Cage wins but not with that much of a difference. That's why I gave the 5,5-4,5 edge to Kang.
On the Jax MU I noted that Jax's ground pounds & armored specials give Kang a headache but it's just what I think. Plus I noted micing iafb with low fireballs. I noticed that most Jax players tend to use the low block/turtle/waiting 4u to make a mistake or get closer game when their opponent is at full screen trying to zone. CD jr does that too. I only watched Tyrant using ground pound cancels against XBlades Kang to keep him on his toes. I lean more to a 5-5, I say "maybe" 5,5-4,5 but again I respect your point of view. :)
As for Cyrax, I don't know... From full screen, trading iafbs with mid/far bombs & eventually nets so that Kang respects the trade, all it takes is one net to lose a good amount of your health PLUS losing bars for a potential breaker and not having extra bars for an enhanced bicycle kick for 19% or a dragon kick for 14%(i think14%). Plus, both of these moves send Cyrax back to either 1/2 screen away or full screen away and it's "here we go again" trying to get close to apply pressure again. Up close Kang has a good advantage of course. :)
 
Yea, they all can hold their own in zoning. I don't know how Sindel's pressure is, but I'm guessing pretty formidable (I've gone against a few). Kitana's pressure? Wouldn't know. Most just zone and combo when they get a hit.
sindel has great pressure, but with kitana, you have to go in. kang can zone kitana, so kitana has only 1 answer, rushdown
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Sheeva v.s Liu Kang 6-4 in Liu Kangs favor: Liu Kang easily outzones Sheeva with his much quicker projectiles that hit Sheeva in many cases before her projectile leaves her hands, when it does get out, Liu Kang almost always has enough time to block her fireballs. Sheeva can telestomp to punish some predictable zoning and has nice armor to break Liu Kang's pressure, but given that Sheeva's normals are very slow, Liu Kang dictates the pace of this match up close and far away, most of Sheeva's string hit high and the low hitting strings like forward 3, back 1 are so slow that they are easy to avoid or block on reaction, while Liu Kang's fast advancing normals beat out Sheeva's hits almost every time.

Sheeva's saving grace is her armor moves, respectable pressure, and the ability to telestomp as a counterzoning measure to punish Liu Kang's fireballs. She can ground pound Liu Kang from full screen to get a slight advantage to come in or hit Liu Kang with a fireball. Conversely, Liu Kang's air fireballs can shut down Sheeva's telestomp attempts in many cases, Liu Kang can control the air with his fireballs.

It's not horrible for Sheeva, but she does have to in many cases chase down Liu Kang, just to have to deal with his up close pressure game that beats out her up close pressure game.