What's new

Match-up Discussion Catwoman vs Aquaman (Tutorial)

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
You can punish a blocked scoop with Cat Dash.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
One thing I like against Aquaman to combat trait is the mixup of 1,f+2 vs. 2,d+2,1. Even though 1 and 2 are different moves they look almost exactly the same. The third hit of 2,d+2,1 launches so quickly that unless they're preemptively traited up they will be launched if the second hits. If they start blocking low after they see a jab I start doing 1,f+2. It doesn't launch but it's a hard knockdown.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Another thing I've been toying with is f+1~straight whip or b+1~straight whip as a mixup. He can't trait it on hit unless he's already traited up. So it's a little damage and a hard knockdown. The HDK is good spacing where if you dash up and then jump he can't wakeup with d+2 to AA you and you will jump over wakeup attacks. You can also dash up and then walk forward a step or two and then do standing 3 to stuff his wakeup attacks.
 

Reborn

Noob
MB claws on trait has a lot of potential, I like the creativity. Random question, how do you deal with Aquaman's water shield? I don't really understand how it works. I am messing around with j3 setups to counter his trait but water shield, which is a 0 frame startup move, is troubling me and is the only thing that is preventing a solid corner game against Aquaman.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
MB claws on trait has a lot of potential, I like the creativity. Random question, how do you deal with Aquaman's water shield? I don't really understand how it works. I am messing around with j3 setups to counter his trait but water shield, which is a 0 frame startup move, is troubling me and is the only thing that is preventing a solid corner game against Aquaman.

It isn't actually 0 frames startup.
 
MB claws on trait has a lot of potential, I like the creativity. Random question, how do you deal with Aquaman's water shield? I don't really understand how it works. I am messing around with j3 setups to counter his trait but water shield, which is a 0 frame startup move, is troubling me and is the only thing that is preventing a solid corner game against Aquaman.
Yeah its about 17 frames till the armor on watershield activates the 0 frame start up is a dirty lie
 

Reborn

Noob
I would really like someone to give an opinion and put some time into the corner setup I posted last week (I'll copy and paste below) to help me flush it out. In the Aquaman matchup, ideally you want j3 setups on wakeup if he has a stored up trait to make it useless if he gets hit. Midscreen, 122/low whip setups can be dashed out of but in the corner this is not the case. This is extra good against Aquaman because his wakeup game is pretty weak and if he does wakeup, you can definitely block and possibly punish. Anyways, here is the setup:

"Right after the 1f2 connects, you need to jump forward instantly. The j3 timing is also kinda strict but it needs to be when your opponent's knees touch the ground. If you jump instantly, it lands in the front (and holding forward does NOT block this). If you delay the jump at all, it lands on the other side."

The more I test it, the more random of results it gets. These have been my findings so far:

*This will sometimes hit in the front and sometimes in the back. In both these instances, you land in front regardless of if the opponent needs to hold forward or back to block.
CONCLUSION: The timing of your j3 will alter which side your attack hits.

* Some wakeups gets stuffed but the faster ones (~16 frames or less) will come out. Now here is where it gets wonky. When recording the opponent to wakeup with ones of these attacks, you will land in the corner and your opponent's wakeup will normally reverse (sometimes will hit you). However, testing this out myself, you don't always get these results. Take Aquaman for example. The input for Trident Rush is df1 and Trident Scoop is db1. When a human wakes up with df1 against this setup, either:
1) Trident Rush could wiff midscreen (full combo punish)
2)Trident Rush could hit you in corner (which you can block but still very bad)
3)Trident Scoop could hit you in the corner (which you can block and punish)
CONCLUSION: Your timing on the j3 partially determines the wakeup, as does when your opponent presses wakeup. If your opponent is mashing wakeup, they will most likely get result 1) where as a delayed wakeup at the end of this window would give result 4).
THIS IS WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP. If you can manipulate the timing somehow to make it always wiff, this setup becomes extremely scary.

*You can block after the j3 for wakeups 10 frames < x < 17 frames, (sorry I do not know the exact number). For all wakeups quicker than that, you can empty jump and punish any wakeup (although you will put yourself in the corner which may not be advantageous if you guess wrong and they decide not to wake up with a move).

---

Sorry I do not have any way to record this. I know this is probably hard to understand without a visual but if you have any questions I can try to explain it.
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
I disagree being her worst match up in the game. It's a 5-5. But I will watch it later. I watch the beginning of it and I have to stop because of class
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
Good stuff. this is good stuff for the people that don't know aquaman match ups.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I just listened to some of the podcast that featured Chef, and it's painfully obvious he knows nothing about Catwoman. Staggering strings against AM? Lol. If you guys are going to discuss Catwoman please interview Krayzie...

Anyway...great vid!
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I just listened to some of the podcast that featured Chef, and it's painfully obvious he knows nothing about Catwoman. Staggering strings against AM? Lol. If you guys are going to discuss Catwoman please interview Krayzie...

Anyway...great vid!

that's what krayzie does against me all the time lol
 

Reborn

Noob
End corner combo with 1f2, dash forward, then b2 as Aquaman wakes up. The timing of the b2 determines whether it crosses up or not (early = cross up, slight delay = same side). Reverses wake up attacks (you can punish Trident Rush and Scoop). b2 pops them in the air so trait doesn't help Aquaman. The only escape is to forward dash and certain wakeup attacks. This is the exact same setup as her high/low mixup so dashing forward would take some cojones.

This works against all characters.


NOTE: Reversing wakeups is character specific and doesn't work on many moves due to their hitbox/properties. This is not the setup you want to use if you read a wake up attack, but it is a nice bonus against certain characters.
 

Reborn

Noob
I know similar tech has been posted before but I found a more practical way of using it. Do any standard corner combo, but end it with 12b3 (a hard knockdown). b3 can be used to cross up your opponent. It is susceptible to wake ups and is a mid (so it can be blocked by holding down) but I still think it is a cool gimmick since it is yet another option that negates Aquaman's trait.

EDIT: This works with 1f2 as well. If you use the 1f2 version, after a dash you can use f3 (instead of b3) to cross up. Interesting...
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I know similar tech has been posted before but I found a more practical way of using it. Do any standard corner combo, but end it with 12b3 (a hard knockdown). b3 can be used to cross up your opponent. It is susceptible to wake ups and is a mid (so it can be blocked by holding down) but I still think it is a cool gimmick since it is yet another option that negates Aquaman's trait.

EDIT: This works with 1f2 as well. If you use the 1f2 version, after a dash you can use f3 (instead of b3) to cross up. Interesting...



I think it works off any ender if you time it right. I can get b+3 to crossup after 1,1,2~straight whip if I delay it enough. Your 1,2,b+3 setup is very easy to time though.

If they want to wakeup they have to reverse the input if they do not have a wake up that auto corrects or another wake up with the opposite input. So if you mix up f+3 and crossup b+3 they must guess between blocking down or back or which way to wake up if they wish to wake up.

I think this is better than just a gimmick. Only downside I can think of now is that if you're wrong on b+3 you've put her at -3 in the corner.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Started to use that cross up b+3 setup at GGA last night, Reborn. It's good man. Was using it against Scorp and it's great because of his wake ups. He tries to do wake up flip and gets hell fire lol. Another bonus is it's good at the end of a game when they still have clash and you're near transition. It's a 50/50 where either option transitions. Against a transition zone the cross up b+3 still transitions.