But what can Sub do from behind the Clone? Any attempt at Iceball is fully punishable by Goro's teleport anywhere on screen on reaction, and thats assuming he isn't close enough for punchwalk punish, which is basically everywhere but fullscreen. So this leaves the only option as Clone toss.
You are very wrong about this. Unbreakable in fact is much better against Goro than GM. He can stop ex-Punchwalk with meterless parry and go into combo. That right there is a million times better than anything you can get from the Clone. The aura helps too.
Either this or fix the hitbox on his NJP. As I find the U2/U1 much more Goro-like I would also prefer that buff. Although I do think it would indeed also stop JIP but nothing's wrong with that. Jumping in or over someone should inherit a certain risk
I agree with that BUT ...
Making the normal punchwalk able to cancel into commandthrow I can live with. It would be some dirt but you need dirt to survive in this game. Making the meterburn version able to cancel would be broken. You can't guess that without a shitton of luck and being the best possible option to just block and eat the commandthrow giving Goro ALWAYS free 14% dmg + chip + meter off of anything is kind of a heavy load to swallow. And I do think you know you overextended there a bit when you say something like "you only eat 27% if you don't block"
Or you could just not over exaggerate for the sake of people who haven't labbed goro. But hey, where's the fun in that
UniversalSo people have talked about this ever since the game was released, but it hasn't been changed yet. Goro is the worst character in the game by far, he loses to every other character in the game. I honestly can't think of a 5-5 matchup that he has. He loses 7-3 or worse to at least 5 characters (Tanya, Predator, Kung Lao, Kitana, Quan Chi, maybe more) and the buffs that they gave him in the past only benefited the strengths he already had, they never really buffed Goro in the categories he actually needs. I would love for every character in the game to be viable and have a chance of winning a tournament, that's the sign of a good fighting game. It sucks when there are characters that are so bad it's basically impossible to use them in competitive play, so you never get to see them used in tournament. So without further ado, I present my Goro buffs that I believe would make him mid tier or possibly high-mid.
UNIVERSAL
Telestomp: The hitbox on this move needs to be fixed so that it has much more priority
As it is now, people can just neutral jump punch it even if he lands on top of your head. Don't believe me? Take Goro and Quan Chi into training mode, press down up with Goro, then press jump 2 with Quan Chi. Even though Goro lands on top of Quan Chi, Goro will get dunked by the NJP for a full combo and Quan Chi won't be effected by the Telestomp whatsoever. WHAT THE....
B12U2: Fixed hitbox so third hit doesn't whiff all the time
Ok so there are times I hit somebody with a jump in punch, and input B12U2. The first two hits B12 will hit, but then the third hit U2 will whiff. Even on punishes, if my opponent does an unsafe move and I go to punish with this string, the first two hits will work and the last one will whiff. This is unfortunate because B12U2 is Goro's only reliable source of meterless damage, without this string he can only launch opponents for combos with EX punchwalk. The range of the third attack in this string should be increased so that if the first two hits connect, the third one should always connect as well.
U1/U2: Changed to 8 frame start up (down from 14)
This move cannot be used in the neutral game at all, it can only connect on your opponent if they are literally standing right next to you touching you. So buffing this move would really only buff Goro's anti air game, which is absolutely necessary. Goro has some of the worst anti airs in the game right now, the whole cast basically jumps in on him for free and gets free pressure/mixups. This attack is usually only good for stopping crossovers anyways, it doesn't have much of hitbox in front so it doesn't stop people from jumping at you from afar.
D2: Changed to 9 frame start up (down from 11)
Like stated previously, Goro lacks a consistent anti air. U1/U2 is usually only good for stopping crossovers, so D2 needs to be able to stop people jumping at you from the front. Buffing this attack would help against characters like Kung Lao/Sonya/Kung Jin who jump at you from afar with long ranged jump ins, so they don't just get free attempts at pressure/mixups on Goro whenever they please.
Shokan Grab: Needs longer range
As it is, when you do D1 on block canceled into Shokan Grab for the tick throw, sometimes Goro's opponent blocks the D1 but the Shokan Grab whiffs. Not only does Goro miss out on damage and a setup for guessing right, but if the opponent is on point they can whiff punish the Shokan Grab with a full combo. That's no fun. If Goro's tick throws are limited, at least make them work.
Punchwalk: On block there are 3 hits, Goro should be able to cancel at least 2 of them into Shokan Grab.
I know you guys are gonna act like this sounds crazy, but it's really not. It's no different then Erron Black doing 21122 and canceling like 3 different hits of it into his command grab. Goro needs this to be good up close. Goro as a character right now needs to get on his opponent, his full screen options and ranged options all suck. So if you're going to make Goro suck ass at a distance, at least make him scary when he's in your face. His up close game isn't even top 10 in the game, while his ranged game is among the worst. It's so hard for Goro to get in on many characters in this game, he deserves some kind of reward for when he finally gets in. Think about it; if you guess Goro is going to cancel one of his punches of punchwalk into command grab so you jump, but Goro actually didn't cancel the punchwalk, what's the worst that can happen to you? You lose like 5% damage and get sent full screen, that's really not that bad.
Tigrar Fury
Low Fireball: +1 on block (up from -3) and 5 less recovery frames
Straight Fireball: 5 less recovery frames
EX Straight Fireball: Hits mid (instead of high)
This variation is supposed to be a zoning variation, but it doesn't zone out anybody lol. At this moment in time there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use Tigrar Fury over Kuatan Warrior, so it would be nice if Goro could actually zone people out. Then Tigrar Fury would actually have a purpose. His EX fire ball shoots 3 high fireballs that go right over your opponent's head, if they crouch then you just wasted a bar of meter for nothing. Also all of Goro's projectiles are terrible on recovery, you're not zoning out any competent player with those fireballs I promise. We should try our best to make every variation in the game have a purpose, every variation in the game should be able to be used competitively for some reason. As of right now Tigrar Fury has 0 use in competitive tournaments.
Kuatan Warrior
Chest Lunge: 10 recovery frames on whiff (down from 34)
Goro's mobility is atrocious, easily the worst in the game. His mobility is in a tier of it's own way at the bottom of the cast. If this attack had less recovery frames whiff, it would still be unsafe as hell but at least Goro might be able to use it from full screen to close the gap between him and his opponent a little bit faster.
Conclusion
So these are my Goro buff suggestions, what do you guys think? Let me know if you agree or disagree with these, or if you have different buff suggestions feel free to list them below. I know many of you are looking at this page like "man these are way too many buffs, are you sure?" And my answer would be 100% YES. Goro needs these. Honestly in my opinion, even if Goro received every single buff I listed on this page, he still wouldn't even be a top 10 character. But he would finally be able to hold his own against most of the cast, and not lose to every single character in the game anymore. Which was my goalI want every character in the game to be viable, but I don't know enough about the other low tier characters like Jaqui, Takeda, Jason etc. to make buff lists for them as well. I know enough about Goro playing 100's of matches with him against all the players at Yomi, and I'm sure they would all agree with me that Goro needs these buffs too. These are the changes that need to happen if you want to tune into a stream at a tournament, and actually see Goro players making top 16 and whatnot.
i guess you dont play that variation so ill throw my 2 cents in for it.
Yeah even if they did normal punch walk cancel and EX punchwalk not cancel that would be awesome.
That is such a terrible mixup lol. I'm spending meter to mix you up, the worst your gonna take if you block is like 18%. But if you jump you're gonna full combo punish Goros command grab or punch walk with like 40%.
Also sucks when they jump and you catch them with punch walk, but they fall out after the first one or two hits and then get a FCP. They really need to fix the hitbox on PW. If it hits it needs to vacuum em in.
He drops ex specials and b1,2,u2 juggles and he has 4 arms to do them with. How sad is that.
With this, i agree. Sometimes it does vacuum them in, sometimes it doesnt.
great thread @FOREVER KING , do you think Tremor needs buffs or not sure yet? wanna tell us in Tremor council?So people have talked about this ever since the game was released, but it hasn't been changed yet. Goro is the worst character in the game by far, he loses to every other character in the game. I honestly can't think of a 5-5 matchup that he has. He loses 7-3 or worse to at least 5 characters (Tanya, Predator, Kung Lao, Kitana, Quan Chi, maybe more) and the buffs that they gave him in the past only benefited the strengths he already had, they never really buffed Goro in the categories he actually needs. I would love for every character in the game to be viable and have a chance of winning a tournament, that's the sign of a good fighting game. It sucks when there are characters that are so bad it's basically impossible to use them in competitive play, so you never get to see them used in tournament. So without further ado, I present my Goro buffs that I believe would make him mid tier or possibly high-mid.
UNIVERSAL
Telestomp: The hitbox on this move needs to be fixed so that it has much more priority
As it is now, people can just neutral jump punch it even if he lands on top of your head. Don't believe me? Take Goro and Quan Chi into training mode, press down up with Goro, then press jump 2 with Quan Chi. Even though Goro lands on top of Quan Chi, Goro will get dunked by the NJP for a full combo and Quan Chi won't be effected by the Telestomp whatsoever. WHAT THE....
B12U2: Fixed hitbox so third hit doesn't whiff all the time
Ok so there are times I hit somebody with a jump in punch, and input B12U2. The first two hits B12 will hit, but then the third hit U2 will whiff. Even on punishes, if my opponent does an unsafe move and I go to punish with this string, the first two hits will work and the last one will whiff. This is unfortunate because B12U2 is Goro's only reliable source of meterless damage, without this string he can only launch opponents for combos with EX punchwalk. The range of the third attack in this string should be increased so that if the first two hits connect, the third one should always connect as well.
U1/U2: Changed to 8 frame start up (down from 14)
This move cannot be used in the neutral game at all, it can only connect on your opponent if they are literally standing right next to you touching you. So buffing this move would really only buff Goro's anti air game, which is absolutely necessary. Goro has some of the worst anti airs in the game right now, the whole cast basically jumps in on him for free and gets free pressure/mixups. This attack is usually only good for stopping crossovers anyways, it doesn't have much of hitbox in front so it doesn't stop people from jumping at you from afar.
D2: Changed to 9 frame start up (down from 11)
Like stated previously, Goro lacks a consistent anti air. U1/U2 is usually only good for stopping crossovers, so D2 needs to be able to stop people jumping at you from the front. Buffing this attack would help against characters like Kung Lao/Sonya/Kung Jin who jump at you from afar with long ranged jump ins, so they don't just get free attempts at pressure/mixups on Goro whenever they please.
Shokan Grab: Needs longer range
As it is, when you do D1 on block canceled into Shokan Grab for the tick throw, sometimes Goro's opponent blocks the D1 but the Shokan Grab whiffs. Not only does Goro miss out on damage and a setup for guessing right, but if the opponent is on point they can whiff punish the Shokan Grab with a full combo. That's no fun. If Goro's tick throws are limited, at least make them work.
Punchwalk: On block there are 3 hits, Goro should be able to cancel at least 2 of them into Shokan Grab.
I know you guys are gonna act like this sounds crazy, but it's really not. It's no different then Erron Black doing 21122 and canceling like 3 different hits of it into his command grab. Goro needs this to be good up close. Goro as a character right now needs to get on his opponent, his full screen options and ranged options all suck. So if you're going to make Goro suck ass at a distance, at least make him scary when he's in your face. His up close game isn't even top 10 in the game, while his ranged game is among the worst. It's so hard for Goro to get in on many characters in this game, he deserves some kind of reward for when he finally gets in. Think about it; if you guess Goro is going to cancel one of his punches of punchwalk into command grab so you jump, but Goro actually didn't cancel the punchwalk, what's the worst that can happen to you? You lose like 5% damage and get sent full screen, that's really not that bad.
Tigrar Fury
Low Fireball: +1 on block (up from -3) and 5 less recovery frames
Straight Fireball: 5 less recovery frames
EX Straight Fireball: Hits mid (instead of high)
This variation is supposed to be a zoning variation, but it doesn't zone out anybody lol. At this moment in time there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use Tigrar Fury over Kuatan Warrior, so it would be nice if Goro could actually zone people out. Then Tigrar Fury would actually have a purpose. His EX fire ball shoots 3 high fireballs that go right over your opponent's head, if they crouch then you just wasted a bar of meter for nothing. Also all of Goro's projectiles are terrible on recovery, you're not zoning out any competent player with those fireballs I promise. We should try our best to make every variation in the game have a purpose, every variation in the game should be able to be used competitively for some reason. As of right now Tigrar Fury has 0 use in competitive tournaments.
Kuatan Warrior
Chest Lunge: 10 recovery frames on whiff (down from 34)
EX Chest Lunge: 1 frame recovery
Goro's mobility is atrocious, easily the worst in the game. His mobility is in a tier of it's own way at the bottom of the cast. If this attack had less recovery frames whiff, it would still be unsafe as hell but at least Goro might be able to use it from full screen to close the gap between him and his opponent a little bit faster.
Conclusion
So these are my Goro buff suggestions, what do you guys think? Let me know if you agree or disagree with these, or if you have different buff suggestions feel free to list them below. I know many of you are looking at this page like "man these are way too many buffs, are you sure?" And my answer would be 100% YES. Goro needs these. Honestly in my opinion, even if Goro received every single buff I listed on this page, he still wouldn't even be a top 10 character. But he would finally be able to hold his own against most of the cast, and not lose to every single character in the game anymore. Which was my goal
Thats actually a good idea, since he does not have a good punisher move that is good against moves which are punishable and create pushback on block.
Careful... I was ridiculed for making this statement a month back...
I hate when I try to low profile a cross up and try to do EX Punchwalk and I get the EX Lowfire ball.
