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Question - Summoner A suggestion to balancing Summoner

I got tired of all those Nerf Quan threads and want to come up with "normalisations" that will make Summoner a more balanced variation over all. I am not saying the changes I am about to suggest are an answer to all the complaints about Summoner's brokenness, but I want to know the opinions of Quan players and others on these. What I was thinking about is this:

What if an EX version of Bat Summon was introduced into the gameplay? It would cost a bar maybe have a little faster start up but what important is it would change the mechanic of how bat works:
- when bat is summoned normally (without using Ex Bat Summon) dL2 or a low bat will hit MID now;
- when bat is summoned normally (without using Ex Bat Summon) all the bat attacks will have increased scaling so you can no longer gain those insane corner combos with that;
- Ex Bat Summon costs a bar of meter grants you a low bat option which actually hits low and the bat attacks scale the same way they do now;
Now this suggestion will probably be the most controversial but here I go:
- Ex Summoned Bat does not go away when Quan is hit, like Sinestro's or Zod's Trait. You still can not use it while blocking and you also can not use it while being in hitstun (so interrupting comboes performed on you isn't possible). But you can use it while being knocked down. It will give Quan options on wake ups. Like going into Ex Bat Summon and even when you get hit at start up the bat still stays there, so when you are knocked down AGAIN and IF the bat hasn't expired while you were comboed you can use it to get your opponent off of you.
Now I ask everyone to think about it, and not just crucify me for this blasphemy) Quan will have to use meter to create pseudo unblockable set ups, to make them or normal 50/50s safe he will have to use another bar for MB Rune. All the 40%+ combos will be only possible with the use of an extra bar spent either on Ex specials or Ex Bat Summon. It will make him more meter dependent, limit his options without it and to compensate for that will give him a much stronger defensive options which will also require a bar of meter used preemptively. Without meter he will still be destroyed in the oki game.

@STB Shujinkydink
@michaelangelo
@WhoIsYams
@FOREVER KING
@PND_Ketchup
@Insuperable
@General M2Dave
@The_Tile
@Rude
@Cabjoy
@All the Quan players and nerf demanders)
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
It doesn't look like NRS wants to nerf Quan. There was a wash of nerf Quan threads for the first 2-3 weeks of the game that had really detailed outlines of what could/should be changed, but all of it went under the radar. While it seems like they adjust many other characters as a reflection of TYM outcry, Quan is the exception.
 

loogie

Noob
has cheap winning tactics, that's all

his whole game in Summoner revolves around having a bat out, when to have the bat out, and what to do with the bat ... and folks would say Sub hides behind clone. Summoner took the 'hiding' to a whole new level with puggles.
 
I like the idea of EX bat, but I think it would be better if it was like this:

Bat cannot be summoned during trance
EX Bat can be summoned during trance
That is an option, although I personally think it would make normal bat almost useless as Quan can only summon it safely either during the trance or when opponent is knocked down.
When it only hits mid and scales combos more it will only be used in trance to make 50/50 safe.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
IWhat if an EX version of Bat Summon was introduced into the gameplay?
I was disgusted when I heard people saying make low bat hit mid, but I think implementing it this way would be a really good idea! As long as you can still summon the normal bad mid combo I'm okay with this, cause the hard to blockables should at least cost meter if they're gonna stay. Very nice idea.
 

Insuperable

My mom tells me I'm pretty
That is an option, although I personally think it would make normal bat almost useless as Quan can only summon it safely either during the trance or when opponent is knocked down.
When it only hits mid and scales combos more it will only be used in trance to make 50/50 safe.
The reason I say this is because it's not entirely gamechanging imo. It will help Quans with meter management, and the combos can still end in 141 with relatively decent damage.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
The reason I say this is because it's not entirely gamechanging imo. It will help Quans with meter management, and the combos can still end in 141 with relatively decent damage.
I think they'll probably increase damage scaling on all his bat attacks anyway tbh, so that's quite unnecessary imo.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I hate any pseudo unblockable launcher in this game. I'll do this : the bat always hits mid, but it will juggle opponent, making it easier to hit confirm and follow up combos. So everytime he hit people with trance, he has free safe vortex (Batgirl's style). His vortex is only overhead or low cancelled into bat launcher, so if opponent guesses right they get out of the vortex, Quan is still safe.
 
Looks pretty good to me. Even if it doesn't end up happening, you put a good amount of effort in and thought hard man
Oh, man, you being alright with that means a lot) I was hoping to make this thread different from all other recent Quan threads so I tried to put some sense into it)
 
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I got tired of all those Nerf Quan threads and want to come up with "normalisations" that will make Summoner a more balanced variation over all. I am not saying the changes I am about to suggest are an answer to all the complaints about Summoner's brokenness, but I want to know the opinions of Quan players and others on these. What I was thinking about is this:

What if an EX version of Bat Summon was introduced into the gameplay? It would cost a bar maybe have a little faster start up but what important is it would change the mechanic of how bat works:
- when bat is summoned normally (without using Ex Bat Summon) dL2 or a low bat will hit MID now;
- when bat is summoned normally (without using Ex Bat Summon) all the bat attacks will have increased scaling so you can no longer gain those insane corner combos with that;
- Ex Bat Summon costs a bar of meter grants you a low bat option which actually hits low and the bat attacks scale the same way they do now;
Now this suggestion will probably be the most controversial but here I go:
- Ex Summoned Bat does not go away when Quan is hit, like Sinestro's or Zod's Trait. You still can not use it while blocking and you also can not use it while being in hitstun (so interrupting comboes performed on you isn't possible). But you can use it while being knocked down. It will give Quan options on wake ups. Like going into Ex Bat Summon and even when you get hit at start up the bat still stays there, so when you are knocked down AGAIN and IF the bat hasn't expired while you were comboed you can use it to get your opponent off of you.
Now I ask everyone to think about it, and not just crucify me for this blasphemy) Quan will have to use meter to create pseudo unblockable set ups, to make them or normal 50/50s safe he will have to use another bar for MB Rune. All the 40%+ combos will be only possible with the use of an extra bar spent either on Ex specials or Ex Bat Summon. It will make him more meter dependent, limit his options without it and to compensate for that will give him a much stronger defensive options which will also require a bar of meter used preemptively. Without meter he will still be destroyed in the oki game.

@STB Shujinkydink
@michaelangelo
@WhoIsYams
@FOREVER KING
@PND_Ketchup
@Insuperable
@General M2Dave
@The_Tile
@Rude
@Cabjoy
@All the Quan players and nerf demanders)
Solid suggestion.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Oh, man, you being alright with that means a lot) I was hoping to make this thread different from all other recent Quan threads so I tried to put some sense into it)
Yo I'm not even that anti-Quan I mostly just think that the buffs weren't necessary, and that the frames on some pseudo-unblockables should be widened but thats a global thing.



I just get dragged into by arguments because downplayers love to quote and with me for talking logic, so I play along :cool:

Regardless nice suggestion, hope NRS take a look at it whether they decide to go with it or not
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
I suggest that we leave dumbness alone and just allow it to be dumb.
Fixed it for you :DOGE.
Actually I just think he needs more damage scaling off mb rune so that he gets around 40% unbreakable max for 3 bars. It's almost the same as b2 into x-ray so the end result is the same, but people won't be dicks about it.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Fixed it for you :DOGE.
Actually I just think he needs more damage scaling off mb rune so that he gets around 40% unbreakable max for 3 bars. It's almost the same as b2 into x-ray so the end result is the same, but people won't be dicks about it.
Damage scaling on MbRune would unnecessarily nerf his other 2 variations, when Summoner is the only potential problem. A damage scaling increase on his bat attacks is a better idea.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Damage scaling on MbRune would unnecessarily nerf his other 2 variations, when Summoner is the only potential problem. A damage scaling increase on his bat attacks is a better idea.
Or this. Also skull on hit to trigger autoblock.