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Match-up Discussion Sinestro vs Scorpion (5-5 MU)

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
After playing hours with Perfect Legend I feel the sinestro MU could be 5-5 or at worst 4-6 and i think he agrees with me.

With his permission i can upload some matches we played, commentate back over them and really dissect the match up for all to see.

Although Carl really hates me right now I <3 him for helping me and hope he wins evo either way.

Id like to do a session online streaming w carl so we can discuss it together but if he doesnt want me to post any matches then i can just do a large write up tomorrow in 2nd OP post which ill reserve

PLAYING TO W1N
legion666
WoundCowboy
SomeCubanGuy
LEGEND
@Sinestro CORE
Quick story-

Friday night I played Foxy's WW. We ended 7-24, his favor. I would go for stretches of 3-6 games sometimes without a win. This is me as Catwoman. There was yelling, and bitching, but in the end (with Mayo's help on gchat), I learned a ton about a matchup that I had very little experience with previously.

Learning a matchup where you struggle takes work and thought. I completely altered my play style in this matchup at the end of 31 games. It was frustrating at times but here's what I learned:

When you're losing against someone, repeatedly, you need to be able to look at your strategy and ask the question: "what am I doing wrong?"

In my case I was doing a lot of little things wrong which were adding up to some pretty complete ass whoopings. It's tough to do but if you want to grow as a player you have to ask that question and be honest about answering it.

I suggest making notes and writing down moves that are owning you and go into the lab and break it down for your character. For instance, I told Mayo I was struggling with WW's B23. He came back with almost immediately (he was in the lab as I was playing) that a neutral jump 2 would cause the b2 to whiff at certain ranges and the j2 would hit, which allows Catwoman to connect with Catdash for a full punish. Things like that which I was unlikely to find in the middle of a match.

I meant that to be a short reply...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

webreg

Noob
m2dave
I've played DS versus Scorpion for a few hours and I feel this match-up is even as well. My complaint, that Scorpion changes the game in a significant way is still true obviously but if you know how to play this match-up and change your strategy accordingly you can beat him.
  • DS Sword Flip beats wakeup teleport if you cross him up with it on wakeup if timed right (dangerous)
  • DS Sword Flip gets you out of range of wakeup teleport if timed wrong (not really useful)
  • DS Sword Spin beats out teleport if timed right because of the bidirectional hitbox
  • DS is able to easily punish a blocked teleport with good damage
  • DS can neutral jump 3 or backjump 3 a teleport and follow it up with a combo if timed well
Yes, don't use your guns versus Scorpion unless you use them within a combo. Yes the teleport is too fast to react to but you can anticipate it and punish him severely. The trick is to use the right anticipation move that doesn't leave you vulnerable to his other options and you have to take risks against him. So yes you can't zone him with DS but you can still beat him. Problem is that the Scorpion I played maybe doesn't use him to his full potential but
 

187x

Noob
is not 5-5. You beat a Scorpion doesn't make the mu 5-5. Everyone has the right to their opinion though. I go back n fourth with Soul Bound X cage in mk9 and scorp cage is not 5-5

6-4 7-3 are winnable
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
is not 5-5. You beat a Scorpion doesn't make the mu 5-5. Everyone has the right to their opinion though. I go back n fourth with Soul Bound X cage in mk9 and scorp cage is not 5-5

6-4 7-3 are winnable
Though true, if Pig has found some reliable and previously unknown strategy then the MU could very well shift. MUs are decided by tools, and if Pig has found said tools who is to say it hasn't become a better MU?

Swine of the Shanty. Has a nice ring to it.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
m2dave
I've played DS versus Scorpion for a few hours and I feel this match-up is even as well. My complaint, that Scorpion changes the game in a significant way is still true obviously but if you know how to play this match-up and change your strategy accordingly you can beat him.
  • DS Sword Flip beats wakeup teleport if you cross him up with it on wakeup if timed right (dangerous)
  • DS Sword Flip gets you out of range of wakeup teleport if timed wrong (not really useful)
  • DS Sword Spin beats out teleport if timed right because of the bidirectional hitbox
  • DS is able to easily punish a blocked teleport with good damage
  • DS can neutral jump 3 or backjump 3 a teleport and follow it up with a combo if timed well
Yes, don't use your guns versus Scorpion unless you use them within a combo. Yes the teleport is too fast to react to but you can anticipate it and punish him severely. The trick is to use the right anticipation move that doesn't leave you vulnerable to his other options and you have to take risks against him. So yes you can't zone him with DS but you can still beat him. Problem is that the Scorpion I played maybe doesn't use him to his full potential but
1. scorpion has no reason to do anything other than flip kick, unless you jump he gets a teleport so fast that its not worth the attempted risk reward that is in his favor.
2. I've found ways to punish flip kick, but the issue is that it involves jumping over which can be teleported on reaction from wake up =(
3. the timing on sword spin is ridiculously tight and loses most of the time to the teleport anyway, god forbid he does a mb teleport to put you back into another unfavorable situation.
4. This is correct. 33% meterless Punish is sufficient. The only downside to getting him in combos is that you knock him back full screen because everything ds does pushes characters away to the point where he is usually in advantage.
5. jump 3 can beat if timed right, the main issue with this is that it is hard enough to press FORWARD on reaction to block a teleport. Of course you can hold down, but think about it, if you can't even get a direction out on reaction how easy is it to try and bait a tele with jump 3 when you can get anti aired out of the air if you time your punish against an extremely fast teleport wrong, the risk reward is always in scorps favor, always.

I've been playing this matchup constantly over the passed few days and all i have to say is that in my experience playing the matchup, scorpion makes you respect his moves by being cautious on every step you take, and that is never a good thing, ever.

My word is never final, and if anyone finds a cure for this matchup please do tell, i'll share everything i have some.
 

webreg

Noob
I've been playing this matchup constantly over the passed few days and all i have to say is that in my experience playing the matchup, scorpion makes you respect his moves by being cautious on every step you take, and that is never a good thing, ever.
Yes, I agree and that's my whole point. If you play Scorpion with the same game plan that usually works with slight modifications against the rest of the cast you will loose. That's the primary gripe I have with Scorpion and the same problem I had with pre-nerf Deathstroke. You have to develop an entirely different strategy and game plan against them. But if you do this, then the match-up is not so bad as some people claim. "Even" was maybe an exaggeration on my part but it doesn't seem to be less that "slightly unfavorable". It really sucks to have to ignore more than half of your special moves because they are entirely useless but we all know that DS has good normals and his sword moves are not that bad either.

Yes, this isn't on topic and I wouldn't mind it moved but at least I am civil and try to advance the conversation even if the direction is a bit off. ;)
 

JHCRANE 14

GO VOLS!!!
I am at work right now but I will say a few things. First I would love to hear playing to win opinion on this because he was claiming death in this match up on the first day. Second, you forgot to include me in the post....no biggie just saying.