STOP Withholding Tech

Doombawkz said:

I'm going to step in as a resident tech monster. This is one discussion I actually do fit within.

Withholding tech is a poor man's act to gain footing. Of this, I can agree... However, not all tech is fit to show.
I made the Bane Character Council for that specific reason. I could post tech, endless and boundless in its degree, to these forums...
Yet I have made few posts of such things, and thats because posting bad information or bad tech is even worse than posting nothing at all.

Tech should be approved in its quality, simply posted because not doing so carries a bad stigma is the wrong way to go about it.


By those means, I would advise almost the opposite. If your tech doesn't bring something new or important to the character, then you should withhold it. No one needs to see the 18th way Flash's f.3 crosses up in the same situation. As @GGA Max would often say when I showed him my tech "Why would I use this when this other thing already exists?". Thats how most people should think. Tech should be something that opens a new avenue for your character, not simply and constantly reinvent the same avenue at no actual gain.

Likewise, sometimes it does but its nowhere near consistent enough to be used in an actual match. Why would that need to be posted? It takes up space and looks cool, but it serves no purpose. It levels down the community because it creates a false image of character capability when the player can't ever possibly foot the bill. You can't simply look at the positives of good tech and blanket all tech under that, there is also the fair share of bad tech that would come flooding out if everyone were to post everything.

I'm all for not withholding GOOD tech, tech that actually innovates, however I'm all for people holding back on their "tech" combo videos.
Maybe more people should make councils and talk tech within them, that'll bring up the QUALITY rather than the QUANTITY.
Thats what really matters.

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alot double talk going on there :/

so only the cool kids decides whats "good" tech? that reeks of ego to be honest.
"the council has decided this tech is deemed as good and shall be passed forward to the peasants" is what im getting when i read that post.
one players garbage is anothers treasure, knowledge is power and all that jive.

if all people who play that character are in a council or pm or whatever all thats happening is hiding of tech as the information is not in a public domain, if its not "ground breaking" tech just merge it with the general discussion thread so at least people will know and find out for themselves where it can or cannot be used, theres zero harm in that, i doubt it will unlevel gameplay as you suggested.

"good" things also stem from what at first seems to be small, suggesting people dont take up space with their thoughts is a bit crazy imo, this is a internet fighting game forum, not mensa

tldr: hiding or non public discussion tech is for the weak and weak minded and wont help that character or the community as a whole in general
well done @Juggs for reminding people of this +1

@Juggs uh... no.


Oh, and you're fired.

^_^

I have to admit, I came late to the community so basically all the "tech" for my character was already found before I even started playing Injustice. But I was still able to make one or two pieces of tech that no one else used, and part of that mentality is what put me on the map....lol I still havent used a double d2 crossover tech midscreen with Flash yet, but idk how to record myself or post stuff since I dont really have any equipment

1man3letters said:

alot double talk going on there :/

so only the cool kids decides whats "good" tech? that reeks of ego to be honest.
"the council has decided this tech is deemed as good and shall be passed forward to the peasants" is what im getting when i read that post.
one players garbage is anothers treasure, knowledge is power and all that jive.

if all people who play that character are in a council or pm or whatever all thats happening is hiding of tech as the information is not in a public domain, if its not "ground breaking" tech just merge it with the general discussion thread so at least people will know and find out for themselves where it can or cannot be used, theres zero harm in that, i doubt it will unlevel gameplay as you suggested.

"good" things also stem from what at first seems to be small, suggesting people dont take up space with there thoughts is a bit crazy imo, this is a internet fighting game forum, not mensa

tldr: hiding or non public discussion tech is for the weak and weak minded and wont help that character or the community as a whole in general
well done @Juggs for reminding people of this +1

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If I posted all of the tech I had, and it was assumed all of the tech was "good tech" then Bane would 7-3 most of the cast using just one of the many.

Instead we have quality control to insure we give a realistic view of the character. The tech you don't see is the tech we don't use. We don't clutter our forums, we don't hide anything that's viable or useful. If anything, we are contributing more by trimming the fat and ensuring the community gets only the best.

And that's actually how the council works. Maybe you should join into some of our old discussions and see just how much "tech" really went unreleased and why, because all you have is an uninformed outside view.

Juggs said:

That's what the forums and the community is for. No one should be discouraged from posting any tech, good or bad. You can't really know if tech is useful until it's applied. If you find something you think is or can be useful, you should share it in your respective character thread. Let your fellow character specialists help you determine whether it is "good" or "bad" tech. Bad tech can open doors to good tech.

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We do that. It's called a character council, which anyone is free to join. We do it without cluttering the forums, so new members don't have to sift through piles of bones to find some meat. It's right there and ready.

For me personally, i don't think holding back tech is a way to gain advantage over someone, to me it's more like, 'i've found this tech i'm going to use it to make my characters unique in whatever way'. I have held back some tech with zatanna that i haven't shared, only with a few others asking for help, and i only do this because mkx is coming soon and injustice will be dropped also. but then on the other hand i also love watching videos people post online with new and useful tech they have found.... so for me i dunno, im on the fence about it all.

Doombawkz said:

If I posted all of the tech I had, and it was assumed all of the tech was "good tech" then Bane would 7-3 most of the cast using just one of the many.

Instead we have quality control to insure we give a realistic view of the character. The tech you don't see is the tech we don't use. We don't clutter our forums, we don't hide anything that's viable or useful. If anything, we are contributing more by trimming the fat and ensuring the community gets only the best.

And that's actually how the council works. Maybe you should join into some of our old discussions and see just how much "tech" really went unreleased and why, because all you have is an uninformed outside view.

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so if u posted this tech that doesnt exist bane would 7-3 whole cast? what are talking about? are you high?

you didnt seem to get my post at all :/
and i am only "uniformed" because you decided not to post that what u deemed "bad tech", so that pretty much proves my point.
good day to you sir

Nah I'm good. The pros of withholding new tech outweigh the cons in my book.

1man3letters said:

so if u posted this tech that doesnt exist bane would 7-3 whole cast? what are talking about? are you high?

you didnt seem to get my post at all :/
and i am only "uniformed" because you decided not to post that what u deemed "bad tech", so that pretty much proves my point.
good day to you sir

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It's called N. Shifting and it does exist, but it's not something you can do with human level reaction times. We are talking abuse of the games engine that can't be realistically used in a match. Why would I post about it if it's unusable, great as it might be, when it would show Bane can basically negate a lot of stuff more so than normal? Like great, but you aren't going to be doing it so it's just for show. That's it. Can't be replicated outside of a controlled environment because we can't react in time to actually do this kind of thing. That's not good tech, but if I posted it as though it was, know what would happen? A lot of MUs would debatably shift about 3 numbers in our favor. It would create issues that would be met with the problem that people will say "This doesn't work in an actual match". How is that good tech? It's not. It's bad tech. Not just because I said so, but because it doesn't achieve anything that forwards our character. It brings it backwards by throwing in stuff we can't use as though we can.

It's bad tech because we (a council open to anyone but comprised of the top representatives of the character as well) took it into the lab, tested it for faults, and considered the viability. If ones man trash is another mans treasure, then we've sorted their recycling for them.

Here, how about this. Ra Helios gets called out because he has an idea about the CW Bane MU that are unrealistic, states to react to things that can't be reacted to conceivably in the middle of a match, and to use tactics with clearly superior alternatives. Why is his argument not a "good" one? Now replace Ra Helios with the word "tech" and maybe you'll understand.

Not like the council is just me, also. As I said, you don't even have to use Bane to join.

The tech is fine the main issue is finding it because the forum layout sucks and the character subforums are a mess. There are no character specialists who curate the subforums. Then we have people like Juggs literally single-handedly ruining the entire martian manhunter subforum by adding all the tech and combos into one unusable megathread and then bailing out.

Now in terms of quality tech though, most people go into training mode for 5 min, capture a youtube video and post it (Zyphox loop I'm looking at you), or they don't even bother looking at other threads. If you're one of those people, don't cry when people say "old" or "useless". Find your tech, test it thoroughly against people with brains, and then post it for major props.

What are you guys smoking though, some of these posts make no sense.

As a self-proclaimed resident tech monster, here're my 2 cents:

When I first joined back in July 2013, I'd post literally everything I found. At the time it received pretty good feedback but looking back now, all I really did was add clutter to the forums, and make it harder to find the genuinely useful stuff (I even posted a thread titled "Midscreen Gimmick", like really?).

In the past year I learned that it's less about finding random pieces of tech and more about finding ways to make your character better, such as optimising punishes, rushdown tactics, etc... But I digress.

I guess it's about balance. Hiding tech is detrimental, but posting everything could be just as detrimental to new players that're having to sift through hundreds of pages of gimmicks, & then begin using these non-viable setups.

No point in posting tech that can only be used once in a blue moon, when the planets are aligned and only if the opponent doesn't tech roll, but if you've got what you genuinely believe to be viable tech - post that shit.

HeroesNZ said:

As a self-proclaimed resident tech monster, here're my 2 cents:

When I first joined back in July 2013, I'd post literally everything I found. At the time it received pretty good feedback but looking back now, all I really did was add clutter to the forums, and make it harder to find the genuinely useful stuff (I even posted a thread titled "Midscreen Gimmick", like really?).

In the past year I learned that it's less about finding random pieces of tech and more about finding ways to make your character better, such as optimising punishes, rushdown tactics, etc... But I digress.

I guess it's about balance. Hiding tech is detrimental, but posting everything could be just as detrimental to new players that're having to sift through hundreds of pages of gimmicks, & then begin using these non-viable setups.

No point in posting tech that can only be used once in a blue moon, when the planets are aligned and only if the opponent doesn't tech roll, but if you've got viable tech - post that shit.

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Fucking tech monsters get it.

Represent my lab brother.

You can withhold tech. Just don't brag about it so people don't complain.

If you want to be credited for tech, like most people on this site for some reason, then share it right away

Fraud Blank said:

You can withhold tech. Just don't brag about it so people don't complain.

If you want to be credited for tech, like most people on this site for some reason, then share it right away

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I do it to take credit away for others who do the same on their characters. Splat stand and d.2 d.2 fast stands? All mine, all May

In my competitive fighting game career, I have found good tech one time. It got out and was immediately patched out of the game. Never again.

Espio said:

In my opinion, winning when people know how to fight your character is much more satisfying than winning when people are clueless about what to do or approach as those victories tend to feel somewhat hollow overall. Withholding information stalls the meta game and progress. The sooner everyone levels up, the better we can break these characters and the game as a whole down.





I've made a lot of guides and analysis of my characters for every game and to this day I sometimes get people that will tell me how a Stryker guide helped them either learn the character or how my Hawkgirl guide helped them learn how to fight her, not everyone says something in threads, some people just lurk, soak up the information and go from there.

If you care about the game and community, sharing knowledge is never a waste, there are people that will read it and appreciate the knowledge, tech and what not even if they don't comment directly on whatever you posted, not everyone is super vocal on the forums. Everyone doesn't listen or learn, but there's plenty of people that are serious about learning and improving too.

Good information promotes discourse and growth, if everyone shared the level of play would probably increase much more quickly instead of moving at a more slowed pace.

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Doombawkz said:

It's called N. Shifting and it does exist, but it's not something you can do with human level reaction times. We are talking abuse of the games engine that can't be realistically used in a match. Why would I post about it if it's unusable, great as it might be, when it would show Bane can basically negate a lot of stuff more so than normal? Like great, but you aren't going to be doing it so it's just for show. That's it. Can't be replicated outside of a controlled environment because we can't react in time to actually do this kind of thing. That's not good tech, but if I posted it as though it was, know what would happen? A lot of MUs would debatably shift about 3 numbers in our favor. It would create issues that would be met with the problem that people will say "This doesn't work in an actual match". How is that good tech? It's not. It's bad tech. Not just because I said so, but because it doesn't achieve anything that forwards our character. It brings it backwards by throwing in stuff we can't use as though we can.

It's bad tech because we (a council open to anyone but comprised of the top representatives of the character as well) took it into the lab, tested it for faults, and considered the viability. If ones man trash is another mans treasure, then we've sorted their recycling for them.

Here, how about this. Ra Helios gets called out because he has an idea about the CW Bane MU that are unrealistic, states to react to things that can't be reacted to conceivably in the middle of a match, and to use tactics with clearly superior alternatives. Why is his argument not a "good" one? Now replace Ra Helios with the word "tech" and maybe you'll understand.

Not like the council is just me, also. As I said, you don't even have to use Bane to join.

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someone talking out their arse is just someone talking out their arse. not saying everyone should get a blue ribbon for anything and everything they post/say

ill try reword what was trying to say so you can try understand more what im trying to get at, projecting the mentality of only grade A useful tech should ever be posted on the public forum could put off NON-council members or new site members to not post what they've found for fear of being needlessly blown up for it not being "council approved level of goodness" even if its good stuff we mightnt ever see it, regardless of the anyone can join in part you spoke of

if its trash its trash and i see your point of trying to filter the "best" or "most useful" things to the forefront but i think you should consider the other side of the sword also

@Perfect Legend lol

1man3letters said:

someone talking out their arse is just someone talking out their arse. not saying everyone should get a blue ribbon for anything and everything they post/say

ill try reword what was trying to say so you can try understand more what im trying to get at, projecting the mentality of only grade A useful tech should ever be posted on the public forum could put off NON-council members or new site members to not post what they've found for fear of being needlessly blown up for it not being "council approved level of goodness" even if its good stuff we mightnt ever see it, regardless of the anyone can join in part you spoke of

if its trash its trash and i see your point of trying to filter the "best" or "most useful" things to the forefront but i think you should consider the other side of the sword also

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If you mean me, I can affirm you that this is an actual thing, and I can list about 20 names who can back me on it's existence AND its impracticality.

Here is the thing: We don't go around policing non-council members. In fact, when someone posts a tech, we go in and analyze it and ask questions about it. We test it ourselves, and we try to optimize it or at the very least, nip it in the bud if its a dead-end and try to get the person going in the right direction. You make us out to be bullies with a checklist, marking off Joe Schmo's tech simply because we don't deem it. In fact its quite the opposite, we welcome anyone to bring their tech to us, but never do we make it a necessity. If people get "blown up", its not by us. We ask questions, we test, we make sure that if it DOES work, it works to its absolute best. We trim the fat, and that's all.

We exist to further the character in any way we can. Never have we turned down tech unless it outright doesn't work. If it works, even in a way that doesn't count as "the best way", we explore it. We further it, we work to the bone to make it as viable as it can be so when some new player sees that tech, they will see the best version we could make for it. When someone comes into the forum and posts, if its tech, we will be there. If someone posts a guide, we will be there to read it and support them constructively. That's what we do.

We do consider both sides of the sword, and who wields it. We simply ensure it is as sharp as it can be, so when the users take a stab at improving themselves, they needn't worry of dulling themselves on weak stones.

Maybe its just a difference in perspective, but tech monsters, lend me your energy on this one. \(>o<)/

For us, the ones who develop tech as the predominant thing we do, its an art. We don't just throw out whatever we make. Tech is a fine marbled meat, just waiting to be cooked and cut, to be trimmed and spiced, and we don't like sending anything out until it is as refined and beautiful and delicious as our communities deserve.

We are not the consumers, we are the producers. We take pride in our parts, and it takes us much longer to prepare the tech than it is for the other side to take benefit. We throw out promising tech, beautiful filet of potential, because we realize it isn't fit to eat. All of that time we invested chasing a dream, preparing it, nurturing our tech baby, and it all goes to waste in a moment. Its like a fleeting dream, once we awaken we have not to show for our works. We get no thanks for a nice try, we go about looking for the next meal to sustain our cultures.

Its easy to say not to withhold tech, but that's like telling an artist to sell every draft and picture he does. That's telling the author to cheapen his words so the consumer doesn't have to wait. We don't make tech just to make tech, we do it to make a difference. It's not something you can understand from the other side of the kitchen counter, but we spend hours, days, sometimes months working on just a single piece of tech for you all to enjoy. Sometimes we don't withhold tech for the sake of withholding it, we do so because we don't want to provide anything less than our best. Sometimes we care more about ensuring you guys get something you can enjoy to the fullest than we do that you guys have just "something". It isn't "something" to us, and you guys shouldn't settle for that either. We think you deserve better, and we strive to provide you with the best.

If you want more tech, you're welcome to come into the kitchen and prepare it yourself. Then you can throw whatever burnt toast you want onto a plate and serve it up as tech. You can complain that the steak isn't coming fast enough, or you can make the steak. Just please be more understanding that not everyone who holds the plate just a moment longer isn't out to spite you, or starve you so they can benefit... Sometimes they just know you'd like your steak medium-well, and medium simply won't do.

I think for the most part tech has been shared alot lately compared to before. People just want to see the optimal setups for it.
In my opinion that is something everyone should individually work for.

Insuperable said:

Sonic Fox shared a bunch of tech, but everyone discredited it because he didn't main the character (his Joker tech thread is best example). So fuk u guys I'm holding my tech close to my heart and only my victims will experience my arrive firsthand in tournament

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It was discredited because it was fake hype, fake promises and bullshit tech that every joker main knew one month into the game while he came and basically chastised every joker player while proclaiming himself the joker god that was gonna finally place.

his tech didnt even work.

i was expecting bullshit replies in a bullshit thread like this that is hunting for likes when this community is dumb enough to think these posts matter when they know it's gonna happen just like it happened with injustice.

Man hell naw. If I figure out some broken shit I'm not revealing it until I use it in tournament.

Qwark28 said:

It was discredited because it was fake hype, fake promises and bullshit tech that every joker main knew one month into the game while he came and basically chastised every joker player while proclaiming himself the joker god that was gonna finally place.

his tech didnt even work.

i was expecting bullshit replies in a bullshit thread like this that is hunting for likes when this community is dumb enough to think these posts matter when they know it's gonna happen just like it happened with injustice.

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who shit in your cereal lmao

Doombawkz said:

If you mean me, I can affirm you that this is an actual thing, and I can list about 20 names who can back me on it's existence AND its impracticality.

Here is the thing: We don't go around policing non-council members. In fact, when someone posts a tech, we go in and analyze it and ask questions about it. We test it ourselves, and we try to optimize it or at the very least, nip it in the bud if its a dead-end and try to get the person going in the right direction. You make us out to be bullies with a checklist, marking off Joe Schmo's tech simply because we don't deem it. In fact its quite the opposite, we welcome anyone to bring their tech to us, but never do we make it a necessity. If people get "blown up", its not by us. We ask questions, we test, we make sure that if it DOES work, it works to its absolute best. We trim the fat, and that's all.

We exist to further the character in any way we can. Never have we turned down tech unless it outright doesn't work. If it works, even in a way that doesn't count as "the best way", we explore it. We further it, we work to the bone to make it as viable as it can be so when some new player sees that tech, they will see the best version we could make for it. When someone comes into the forum and posts, if its tech, we will be there. If someone posts a guide, we will be there to read it and support them constructively. That's what we do.

We do consider both sides of the sword, and who wields it. We simply ensure it is as sharp as it can be, so when the users take a stab at improving themselves, they needn't worry of dulling themselves on weak stones.

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dude your ego on this matter is far bigger than the effort i want to put in to get you to see anyones point of view but your own.
your suggesting things i said which i clearly did not and then give me a counter point to something i didnt even say, ill leave you to your business