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STOP Withholding Tech

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
First of all, I'm not accusing anyone of this. I know a lot of people do it, and they have their reasons, but I want to express why I feel it's not a good idea to do so.

Withholding tech, for those that are unaware, is when you purposely don't share some type of tech you've found or learned about. To me, most players do this in order to preserve some type of advantage over the competition. I understand that line of reasoning. It fits along with the playing to win mentality, and the strive to be the best. Because of this, it's not ever really seen as that bad of a thing. How can you condemn someone for wanting to give themselves the best chance at winning? Well, I'm about to.

When you withhold tech, you're only doing a disservice to yourself and the community. I understand holding out on your game plan and I understand holding out for big tournaments. And I also understand that those of you who have or will withhold tech will say, "whatever man, if withholding tech will help me win EVO, that's what I'm going to do". But no matter the reason, to me, withholding tech is a reason the community is as small as it is tournament wise and why we struggle with growth.

You can say, well look at Capcom, those guys withhold tech all the time, they even boast about it. The difference is, their community is much bigger than ours, and older too. It's not like they're done growing, but there's so many players, that tech is found constantly, not just by top players or tech monsters. The NRS community doesn't have this luxury. We're small in comparison, which is why withholding tech is so much more damaging, more so than I think some people realize.

When you share your tech, you immediately level up the entire community. You can say "well, you only level up those who know about the tech", but sharing tech has a domino effect. As more and more people learn about it, it spreads, and it usually spreads quickly. Why would you want to level up the community and not just level up yourself though, you ask? Because it creates more competition you silly goose! But why do you want more competition? Tournaments is why. If we all are constantly sharing tech, this means people are leveling up faster than if we weren't. Which means instead of 5 top players, maybe there's 10. Instead of 20 high level players, maybe there's 40, and so on. This means more competition, which means more people willing to travel to tournaments, because they're more confident that they won't just be another pot monster.

Other than the bad personal drama, the worst aspect of our community is how small the tournament scene is compared to how many people are actually in the community. I mean even here on TYM, we have 25k+ members, and can hardly break 100 at majors. That's an absolute horrible ratio, and TYM isn't the only place where competitive MK players dwell.

Stop withholding tech. It's bad for your health, it's bad for your communities health. If we want to grow, we need to be able to rely on each other. We need to be be a community. As Jack from LOST said, "we either live together... or we're going to die alone".
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
We have 25k members, but the vast majority of them aren't active. We have tons of dead accounts, old accounts from previous forums, spam bots, etc.

This community is at the expected size for being 4 years old (probably bigger) and will definitely continue to grow year by year.
 
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Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
As much of an advocate as I am for sharing tech, you can't get mad at people for wanting to have a competitive advantage and keeping things they find a secret. I've never personally done it because I like to see everyone using the stuff I find, but I'm never mad at anyone who doesn't want to share stuff with me for competitive reasons. I get your points and I agree with them for the most part, the only thing I would say is that it's not like people withhold the tech forever. From what I've seen people explain and share their tech shortly after they reveal it wherever they have.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'm going to step in as a resident tech monster. This is one discussion I actually do fit within.

Withholding tech is a poor man's act to gain footing. Of this, I can agree... However, not all tech is fit to show.
I made the Bane Character Council for that specific reason. I could post tech, endless and boundless in its degree, to these forums...
Yet I have made few posts of such things, and thats because posting bad information or bad tech is even worse than posting nothing at all.

Tech should be approved in its quality, simply posted because not doing so carries a bad stigma is the wrong way to go about it.


By those means, I would advise almost the opposite. If your tech doesn't bring something new or important to the character, then you should withhold it. No one needs to see the 18th way Flash's f.3 crosses up in the same situation. As @GGA Max would often say when I showed him my tech "Why would I use this when this other thing already exists?". Thats how most people should think. Tech should be something that opens a new avenue for your character, not simply and constantly reinvent the same avenue at no actual gain.

Likewise, sometimes it does but its nowhere near consistent enough to be used in an actual match. Why would that need to be posted? It takes up space and looks cool, but it serves no purpose. It levels down the community because it creates a false image of character capability when the player can't ever possibly foot the bill. You can't simply look at the positives of good tech and blanket all tech under that, there is also the fair share of bad tech that would come flooding out if everyone were to post everything.

I'm all for not withholding GOOD tech, tech that actually innovates, however I'm all for people holding back on their "tech" combo videos.
Maybe more people should make councils and talk tech within them, that'll bring up the QUALITY rather than the QUANTITY.
Thats what really matters.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I agree with the OP. Sharing tech will only levitate us to a higher level of play sooner. I think we all secretely know MKX will be the most successful MK to date considering the view count trailers have and being across 5 platforms. I expect this site and tournament scene to have a big boom within the next few months that will bring longevity to MKX, achieving a longer life span than the last two games. The knowledge will flow.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Sharing tech will only levitate us to a higher level of play sooner.

^Good tech. Innovates the character by providing an advantage in a MU, or an option that previously was unexplored or unknown.


^ Bad tech. Inconsistent, gives a false image of potential, pointless to use when compared to other options.


^Not Tech. Its really not. Its a combo. This is not tech.


Know the difference. There is no "tech". There is good tech and bad tech. :|
 
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RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
i've been saying this for so long... juggs you've probably heard me say it too.

The difference between a good player and a great player is the great player needs no advantages or crutch to beat people, they will win no matter what. Ex; @R.E.O. <- he's a prime example of someone who shares everything about his character and tells you HOW to beat him or deal with things, but yet he still was the most dominant, most winning, arguably best NRS game player ever.

people can do whatever they want imo, but i will always share all the knowledge i obtain about my character or any other character. I like having great competition and would prefer more and more amazing talents to appear, not just for the community, but it also is benefiting me in the long run ( i have tons of good ppl to play which makes it more fun).
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Sonic Fox shared a bunch of tech, but everyone discredited it because he didn't main the character (his Joker tech thread is best example). So fuk u guys I'm holding my tech close to my heart and only my victims will experience my arrive firsthand in tournament
I discredited it because the set-up was inconsistent, and there were a lot of holes to exploit in the concept.
Barring the corner where if you are there against Joker its over anyways.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Know the difference. There is no "tech". There is good tech and bad tech. :|
That's what the forums and the community is for. No one should be discouraged from posting any tech, good or bad. You can't really know if tech is useful until it's applied. If you find something you think is or can be useful, you should share it in your respective character thread. Let your fellow character specialists help you determine whether it is "good" or "bad" tech. Bad tech can open doors to good tech.
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
Sharing tech is good for the community but I will not share set-ups, those are for tournament use.

If I find something character changing I will share it because I want to see my character / community succeed.
 

Cerebru

Noob
Well when people actually support the community they get called frauds i.e. Placing at that MLG tourney doesn't count only the majors...because they don't know how the tourney is supposed to be ran...damn .... players act like we never met.... others never go to a tourney and swear they know best approach or plausible outcome for everything... and if you don't mind me saying but the FGC as a whole is tiny and most players lack the personality to be liked outside of being in front of their own screen .... If you honestly want a better a community first petition NRS for net code innovation... this will increase your community more than sportsmanship......I mean its still is a fighting game .... which means i want to beat the living S#%T outta you every round in the most humiliating way possible....this is a two player fighter that changes speeds per player as if it were Tetris .... there is no reason why I experience so much lag and delay than halo in 2008 please don't try clowning my connection... Certified IT not saying much but its enough to say I know networks ... I like NRS .... but MK9 ran on PS3 on the tourney scene which felt like playing online in my opinion as an xbox player... I watch this site clown Curbo in his upcoming... no offense I think this site does more than serve is purpose... Blackula has to be one of the chillest members of the community I ever met... met him on here in the VA forum when I was in the Service... streamed like every friday... no one showed him enough love les Brady came over.... Brady's chill why he gets so much hate Ill never know... Me and PL have yet to run sets... Hope B Wizz still runs Raiden mirrors and offer advice through chat ... Thats showing love for your character.... Joined to late for IGAU... but have still been to more tourneys than a few not saying I'm great but am great at actually supporting when a tourneys in my back yard... Shout out to CEO... and For ATL Batman for grabbing that pass for me when I couldn't be present purchase my Final Round pass that one time and actually holding his word and not stealing 50 bucks from someone he never met ... Clutch.... Without further Adu

NRS Please fix the Net Code to the best of your ability. I understand the limitations but like I said Halo did and it has more players to sync on an online platform. NRS Players play CAPCOM games please.... before the rise of COD fellow halo players picked up the game to show how easy it would be to shoot someone once vs four... both communities grew in retrospect and left it to the developers to decide which game was to survive... Less complain more play .... And no more Censorship... This is America.... but then again its TYM that is all... I'm still considered a Noob on here....
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
In my opinion, winning when people know how to fight your character is much more satisfying than winning when people are clueless about what to do or approach as those victories tend to feel somewhat hollow overall. Withholding information stalls the meta game and progress. The sooner everyone levels up, the better we can break these characters and the game as a whole down.



You didn't take into account the fact that people don't listen, and don't learn, so a lot of the time any information shared is effort wasted.

I've seen this happen with near enough every character I've played. So why bother?

I'll see how I feel when MKX comes out I guess.
I've made a lot of guides and analysis of my characters for every game and to this day I sometimes get people that will tell me how a Stryker guide helped them either learn the character or how my Hawkgirl guide helped them learn how to fight her, not everyone says something in threads, some people just lurk, soak up the information and go from there.

If you care about the game and community, sharing knowledge is never a waste, there are people that will read it and appreciate the knowledge, tech and what not even if they don't comment directly on whatever you posted, not everyone is super vocal on the forums. Everyone doesn't listen or learn, but there's plenty of people that are serious about learning and improving too.

Good information promotes discourse and growth, if everyone shared the level of play would probably increase much more quickly instead of moving at a more slowed pace.
 
In my opinion, winning when people know how to fight your character is much more satisfying than winning when people are clueless about what to do or approach as those victories tend to feel somewhat hollow overall. Withholding information stalls the meta game and progress. The sooner everyone levels up, the better we can break these characters and the game as a whole down.





I've made a lot of guides and analysis of my characters for every game and to this day I sometimes get people that will tell me how a Stryker guide helped them either learn the character or how my Hawkgirl guide helped them learn how to fight her, not everyone says something in threads, some people just lurk, soak up the information and go from there.

If you care about the game and community, sharing knowledge is never a waste, there are people that will read it and appreciate the knowledge, tech and what not even if they don't comment directly on whatever you posted, not everyone is super vocal on the forums. Everyone doesn't listen or learn, but there's plenty of people that are serious about learning and improving too.

Good information promotes discourse and growth, if everyone shared the level of play would probably increase much more quickly instead of moving at a more slowed pace.
I think reo is one of those sneaky guys, who reads all the tech in secret. That's one of the reasons why he is so good.

Also to people saying everyone ignoring tech. During Mk9 days I read every tech about kung lao and tested it myself and used it if I deemed it useful. Just because I don't always post in the thread doesn't mean I didn't steal your tech:DOGE. This time with MKX I will be working even harder than I did with Mk9.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
The other part I didn't address is the people afraid to share tech because they felt they'd be chastised if they did. First of all, sharing tech is not only for you, it's for the community first, which in turn IS for you. If you just want credit for finding new tech, you're apart of the problem. You should also be prepared for people to not agree with your tech being useful. Your tech could very well be useless, and they could very well be wrong about it as well. Both sides need adjustments. Posting new tech shouldn't automatically be judged in a negative light. You should collectively determine whether the tech is good or not, but not dismiss it based on who is sharing it. If your tech is seen as "bad", if you still feel differently, prove it. Check your egos at the door, otherwise MKX will be the same sad story.
 

mamasau

Noob
That's what the forums and the community is for. No one should be discouraged from posting any tech, good or bad.
Pretty much this.
Also bad things can help learning.
And well done replies to these kind of topics can really help a lot of players, mainly newcomers like me, but hey, I also signed up to learn :p

Btw I don't condemn withholding tech, anyone is free to share, or not his/her knowledge, mainly with an important tournament behind the corner.
 

Cerebru

Noob
I think reo is one of those sneaky guys, who reads all the tech in secret. That's one of the reasons why he is so good.

Also to people saying everyone ignoring tech. During Mk9 days I read every tech about kung lao and tested it myself and used it if I deemed it useful. Just because I don't always post in the thread doesn't mean I didn't steal your tech:DOGE. This time with MKX I will be working even harder than I did with Mk9.
Lol Reo invents tech... and re invents the invented tech at the Events...
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
In my opinion, winning when people know how to fight your character is much more satisfying than winning when people are clueless about what to do or approach as those victories tend to feel somewhat hollow overall. Withholding information stalls the meta game and progress. The sooner everyone levels up, the better we can break these characters and the game as a whole down.





I've made a lot of guides and analysis of my characters for every game and to this day I sometimes get people that will tell me how a Stryker guide helped them either learn the character or how my Hawkgirl guide helped them learn how to fight her, not everyone says something in threads, some people just lurk, soak up the information and go from there.

If you care about the game and community, sharing knowledge is never a waste, there are people that will read it and appreciate the knowledge, tech and what not even if they don't comment directly on whatever you posted, not everyone is super vocal on the forums. Everyone doesn't listen or learn, but there's plenty of people that are serious about learning and improving too.

Good information promotes discourse and growth, if everyone shared the level of play would probably increase much more quickly instead of moving at a more slowed pace.
Pack it up, Thread. Espio nailed it.