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Should testers be excluded from competing in the first few tournaments of the game?

Should testers be banned for the first couple tournaments of MKX?


  • Total voters
    128

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
OK let's make things simpler and see how things will work out in practicality instead of all this theory fighting:

MKX will be released in April. The two QA's are GGA 16 Bit and GGA Pimpimjim. Those are the two guys who by then would have been working on the game for a year or so. These guys live in Chicago. There will be no majors in Chicago during that time (is there a replacement for UFGT? If there is, that's a month into the game's life span anyway). Since these guys will not be going to East Coast majors for well-documented reasons, you have nothing to worry about. By the time CEO rolls along, that would be two months into the game's life, which is pretty reasonable for them to travel and participate. If you can't level up in two months, then you're not losing because of the testers. You're just not that good (that's a general "you" here. I'm not addressing anyone in particular).

As far as other testers, the ones who are flown in for a week or so, I would say they should probably sit out for the first couple of weeks into the game's life span. So for instance, testers who happen to live on the East Coast would participate in ECT, but not Civil War. There, problem solved.

@Mr Aquaman Does that sound fair? If so, let's start pushing this idea.
Interesting points, I hope I'm not intruding but,

The replacement for UFGT is Combo Breaker I think.

I'd like to touch on the east coast tournaments thing, because I have a couple of questions I'd like you to Konsider (sorry that was cheesy).

Are 16 bit and PPJ the only QA guys? Or just the ones that the community knows?
Yes there is documented reasons why GGA most likely won't participate in East Coast tournies, but those points shouldn't come into play when we are talking about testers. Because, what if things change? And PPJ isn't banned from those tournaments.

If a decision needs to be made about testers playing in tournaments within the first month (or whatever the pre determined length of time they shouldn't be playing) it should be a generalized. No majors for X amount of time for anyone who tested the game beyond the week long beta stuff.

The week long guys should go to every event imo.

That being said, as an international player who needs to fork out a pretty penny to go to these events, if I was planning on going to a major within the first month of the game's life and 16bit and PPJ and whoever else tested the game was going, it wouldn't stop me from attending. And my goal when going to these events is to compete, not just go and have the experience.
 

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Personally, I don't think I would travel to tournaments within a week of the games release if testers are able to compete because I have to spend a lot of money and time to attend tournaments and I would like to feel like I have a shot at winning. BUT, if Injustice and MKX are both there, I can see myself travelling with the intent on placing/winning Injustice and just having fun with MKX in which case I don't care so much if the testers are banned or not.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Analyzing what is pretty simple, should I want to pay to guarantee my loss? lol

Injustices History, first 3 majors
Reo/Brady/ChrisG/:eek:
Brady/Reo/Chris G/ Jr (YO UL)
Chris G/Wound/Sabin/Slips

and this was the first 2 months before evo?

TESTERS
You're literally still not offering any solution though. You want them banned. Fair enough. For how long? Also, all of the majors you listed took place a month into the game. That's why I highlighted above that in this scenario, the QA's would not be able to participate in any major until CEO, which is two months into the game, even if they wanted to (since they're banned anyway).

By the way, 10 bucks says, Chris G and REO will still be winning majors this time around, testers or not. I'm not saying testers shouldn't be banned. But let's start specifying things because people here sure as hell aren't.
 

Mr Aquaman

Protector of the Realms
Lead Moderator
You're literally still not offering any solution though. You want them banned. Fair enough. For how long? Also, all of the majors you listed took place a month into the game. That's why I highlighted above that in this scenario, the QA's would not be able to participate in any major until CEO, which is two months into the game, even if they wanted to (since they're banned anyway).

By the way, 10 bucks says, Chris G and REO will still be winning majors this time around, testers or not. I'm not saying testers shouldn't be banned. But let's start specifying things because people here sure as hell aren't.
I merely asked the question, since anything we do on TYM the goons always say WELL MAKE A POLL
 

coolwhip

Noob
Interesting points, I hope I'm not intruding but,

The replacement for UFGT is Combo Breaker I think.

I'd like to touch on the east coast tournaments thing, because I have a couple of questions I'd like you to Konsider (sorry that was cheesy).

Are 16 bit and PPJ the only QA guys? Or just the ones that the community knows?
I don't know how anyone here could possibly answer that question, but it's a valid concern. Nevertheless, we only go by what we know.

Yes there is documented reasons why GGA most likely won't participate in East Coast tournies, but those points shouldn't come into play when we are talking about testers. Because, what if things change? And PPJ isn't banned from those tournaments.
I'm not going to speak on behalf of anyone especially since I'd just be talking out of my ass, but last year, Slips and 16 Bit didn't go to any Injustice tournament until UFGT. I highly doubt you'll see PPJ take a plane ticket to the East Coast to participate in a tournament over there throughout that time frame.

If a decision needs to be made about testers playing in tournaments within the first month (or whatever the pre determined length of time they shouldn't be playing) it should be a generalized. No majors for X amount of time for anyone who tested the game beyond the week long beta stuff.
Agreed. The problem is, nobody will agree on something and who has the authority to make this decision anyway? The community? I mean, 95% of the community does not travel to tournaments so why should I or other people who aren't affected by this have a say? From a viewer's perspective, of course I want testers to participate because the game would look better, but that's an admittedly selfish thought.

The week long guys should go to every event imo.
Except the events that take place within a week/10 days of the game's release, I agree.

That being said, as an international player who needs to fork out a pretty penny to go to these events, if I was planning on going to a major within the first month of the game's life and 16bit and PPJ and whoever else tested the game was going, it wouldn't stop me from attending. And my goal when going to these events is to compete, not just go and have the experience.
100% co-signed.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I don't think they need to be banned. I think they should use their own judgement on what they personally think is fair, and if there's more testers than 16bit and Pimpimjim, to let everyone know before hand. I don't think they should be punished for testing the game.

Aside from that, leave it to the discretion of the TO.
 

Mr Aquaman

Protector of the Realms
Lead Moderator
I don't think they need to be banned. I think they should use their own judgement on what they personally think is fair, and if there's more testers than 16bit and Pimpimjim, to let everyone know before hand. I don't think they should be punished for testing the game.

Aside from that, leave it to the discretion of the TO.
It's a very touchy subject haha I would just hate to come off as unfair.

My situation at Civil was exactly this one. I only lost to the guys who had been playing for weeks or months. And it cost me all da money haha. I don't call being unfair but it certainly sucked since I traveled and paid to be there and had a legitimate shot to win. And I think everyone should have the same shot at winning when the game comes out. My opinion of course.
 
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SHAOLIN

内部冲突
I don't think he's meaning all 300 testers, dude. They haven't been testing it since day one like people who WORK for NRS have.
Last time I check video game testers work for video games developers to test out bugs in there games......so yea they WORK for NRS.

Also @Mr Aquaman do you have a list of all the testers from NRS
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
it Depends, Testers that have been playing the game as a job AKA 16 bit should be excluded for atleast the first month. testers that go for a week to test is where i'm iffy on, because it wouldn't be fair to bit and ppj etc but at the same time a week with the game early on isn't that much of an advantage, its like going to every expo that hold mkx like @Doombawkz ( <3 ) and just playing the shit out of the game early, like those beta testers. i think the cut off date for testers longer than a pre determined set off time should be a month, what that pre determined set of time is the question.
Dun Ban meh.
I'll rite u moar rapz
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
It's a very touchy subject haha I would just hate to come off as unfair.

My situation at Civil was exactly this one. I only lost to the guys who had been playing for weeks or months. And it cost me all da money haha. I don't call being unfair but it certainly sucked since I traveled and paid to be there and had a legitimate shot to win. And I think everyone should have the same shot at winning when the game comes out. My opinion of course.
I understand that it's unfair to play against someone who tested the game, it is unfair. But I still don't think they deserve to be banned. I do think the testers themselves should steer clear of tournaments for around a month after release, but I don't however think that they should be forced to.

Also, and this isn't related to my opinion on whether testers should be banned or not, but early tournament wins historically don't mean much, especially when "testers" are taken into consideration. Also x2, how hype would it be to body a tester live on stream? And if they win? Who cares.... they're testers, they're supposed to win! This is of course disregarding the money aspect, but if you really don't want to spend money to play against a tester, don't go to a tournament where testers are allowed to play.
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
Agreed. The problem is, nobody will agree on something and who has the authority to make this decision anyway? The community? I mean, 95% of the community does not travel to tournaments so why should I or other people who aren't affected by this have a say? From a viewer's perspective, of course I want testers to participate because the game would look better, but that's an admittedly selfish thought.
You're right, no one will agree. I feel like the only people who can make those decisions are the TOs (other than the testers making it simple for everyone and deciding not to compete). As long as they make it clear to the community how the tournaments are going to be run (along with stage selection and variation rules) then it will allow everyone to make their own decisions before spending any money to travel.

From the viewers perspective, yes it is selfish... But like you said 95% of the community are viewers, so I don't think it's something to be overlooked.
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
No they shouldnt be....i think theyll bring hype matches. And plus itll give a lot of people someone to root against right away
 
I think two months, possibly 3, is enough time for people to catch up.

As for "Most" of the people saying they don't want any sort of limitations against tester advantage, they aren't seeing it from the point of view of someone who competes and wants a fair shot at winning (they just care about themselves and what they wanna see at home), they're probably also players who are not as competitive and don't travel.


Look at the first few majors and tell me honestly there was no tester advantage. Everyone who won, and nearly anyone who was in top 3 at these tournaments until evo were all testers. I think the first non tester to crack top 3 was at CEO in JUNE after injustice was released.

Top 8 doesnt mean shit, its winning that matters at these high payout tournaments so saying that top 8 is "reachable without being a tester" is pretty irrelevant. Hell even MLG, with all that money, only paid out top 4.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
We've had this discussion a couple times before, but I wanted to share my perspective on it:

When I went to PAX East in 2013, I hung out with and played with a couple of guys who had been brought in to focus test the game. I was there for 3 days, and I learned more from them in those 3 days than I would have on my own in twice that amount of time. But why was that?

Firstly, because they were friendly and helpful. But more importantly, think about the environment they were in while staying in Chicago.. Being there with the game developers, and having them able to bring you up to speed, answer questions, show you how things are supposed to work and help guide you is priceless. For everyone who says "well, it's the same as pirating the game" know that it's not.

For example for me, Derek was incredibly helpful. Just being able to say "Derek, how exactly does this mechanic work" and have him show me, illustrate things I hadn't found yet, demonstrate use cases etc. was fantastic. It saved a lot of time, and also made me aware of things that would have taken some time to randomly discover on my own. Or to ask the testers and have them point out things they learned from being around the guys that made the game. So kudos to the NRS staff for being so cool, and the short-term testers I met for being such great people.

Now, imagine doing this for a week solid for hours a day, around the dev team, a bunch of other really great players who are all doing the same thing, and some of the in-house testers who have had their hands on the game for months, picking the engine apart via experience to learn how things work and find the issues/bugs. It's a great combination to accelerate your learning of a game.

I firmly believe that we need great testers and you can never have enough; the more carefully-chosen players who get a chance to have their hands on the game earlier on, the better an experience it becomes for everyone who gets the final game afterward. But for those people who do, know that you're in a privileged position and be willing to be honest about the temporary leg up it gives you. As long as everyone's being up-front, it keeps things fair for all.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
The game comes out in April.
So long as the first tourney is after May, my character will be broken. I just need to find capable hands to utilize it.
 

Error404

Noob
The first few tournaments have a lot of money in them . Give everyone else at least 1 month to catch up and let the testers work on patches/dlc characters.
 

Dust

Iron Dragon
The sooner we play with and face them the sooner the rest of the community will catch up. Sure your chances of winning if not a tester are low but we will still see winners outside the testers in some tournaments. I'm sure of it just like Injustice.