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Should horizontal aerial projectiles have a place in MKX?

EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
I'm fine with being zoned, but it's a tricky balance with instant air projectiles. Give characters the tools to get around it and we're fine, or add a little more recovery.
 
Honestly, at this stage, a fair amount of players are capable of doing them consistently. This isn't 2011 anymore lol.
"At this stage" doesn't matter, because my point was that this is something that flies under the radar at release, because it takes time for a larger amount of players to be able to do it, and for the problem to become relevant.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
I hope they have alot more Diagonal Projectiles.

i hope MKX has a char that cancel its animation, while the projectile is on screen like ya one from Blazblue
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Honestly, Cassie is kinda on par with DS air guns so... I dunno. Then again I didn't see anyone that looked any good, so maybe it's better
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
The reason for this thread is that instant air horizontal projectiles seem to be unique to NRS games (as far as I'm aware) and I'm curious to see how people feel about them as I am even undecided on them.
You created a thread questioning whether instant aerial fireballs should ever be present in any future NRS fighting game. Yet you expect me to believe that you are "undecided"?

Stop being a fool and admit you are scrub who refuses to learn how to get around aerial projectiles.

In my opinion, the community should be thanking Paolo for designing Zod's instant aerial Zod balls, MB low laser, and trait. I know I did in Las Vegas. He created one of the most original zoning characters in fighting game history.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
You created a thread questioning whether instant aerial fireballs should ever be present in any future NRS fighting game. Yet you expect me to believe that you are "undecided"?

Stop being a fool and admit you are scrub who refuses to learn how to get around aerial projectiles.

In my opinion, the community should be thanking Paolo for designing Zod's instant aerial Zod balls, MB low laser, and trait. I know I did in Las Vegas. He created one of the most original zoning characters in fighting game history.
Yes exactly. I am asking the question. I am not declaring that they shouldn't be, I am asking for other people's opinions. I can see why this is a difficult concept for you to grasp though as you only talk in dictatorship style sentences and believe that everyone is beneath you, so it's not hard to imagine that you can't fathom why someone would be interested in others' opinions.

And actually no, I have never had difficulty getting around them as I've never played anyone of relaxedstate's skill who can perform them consistently perfect.
 
Honestly, at this stage, a fair amount of players are capable of doing them consistently. This isn't 2011 anymore lol.
They aren't the hardest thing the in the world, and I even see the value of having execution heavy characters in the cast for those who like it. I just question the wisdom of also making the alternative almost flat out inferior(wasted design space) and making such a character so dominating. I mean ideally you don't want a kabal tier period, or such lousy matchups, but it doesn't help when that character is also obnoxious for the community to pick up.

If you make an execution monster, fine, just be aware of what they're capable of when put in the right hands so you don't wind up with stuff like this, and I really just hate "inferior" moves personally.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
They aren't the hardest thing the in the world, and I even see the value of having execution heavy characters in the cast for those who like it. I just question the wisdom of also making the alternative almost flat out inferior(wasted design space) and making such a character so dominating. I mean ideally you don't want a kabal tier period, or such lousy matchups, but it doesn't help when that character is also obnoxious for the community to pick up.

If you make an execution monster, fine, just be aware of what they're capable of when put in the right hands so you don't wind up with stuff like this, and I really just hate "inferior" moves personally.
IMO, execution-heavy characters aren't really a good thing, because if they end up outside of top tier, then you'll have a character who requires a lot of practice time just to be able to do their basic stuff fluently...which is pointless when other characters don't require that.

On the flip side, that basically means they better be the best or arguably the best...or at least close to that. I don't even hate execution-heavy characters, but this is a huge problem with them, and it just leads to a character that you cannot properly balance.
 
IMO, execution-heavy characters aren't really a good thing, because if they end up outside of top tier, then you'll have a character who requires a lot of practice time just to be able to do their basic stuff fluently...which is pointless when other characters don't require that.

On the flip side, that basically means they better be the best or arguably the best...or at least close to that. I don't even hate execution-heavy characters, but this is a huge problem with them, and it just leads to a character that you cannot properly balance.
I agree, although I think you can hit a sweet spot. It's just rare. If the tiers are compressed enough to not feel too awful it doesn't hurt to have a complex character in mid or bottom of top. GG does a decent job(but then again the list of non complex gg characters is pretty damn short). I think it helps though that even if you're low tier in GG, you still do batshit crazy stuff, whereas low tier in most other games means you struggle to do the basics.

Still, they clearly suffer the most from poor balancing in either direction.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
I don't buy into the HIGH EXECUTION IS SACRED garbage. I really believe that all characters in all fighting games should have SoulCalibur-easy BnBs. You add depth in trickier stuff like position-sensitive/counterhit stuff, or godforfuckinbid the depth of a game be based around knowledge of spacing, situational awareness, mind games and thoughtful reads. IDGAF if you can pull off a one-frame link... seems wholly unnecessary given everything a fighting game can be. I see it mostly as a needless barrier. And this is from a guy that cut his teeth on Guilty Gear. For me, MKX will be a numbers game. Accessibility = more players = more hilarious hate mail. Love me some dial-a-combos.

As far as IAFBs go, my only worry is that there will be a character I like that ends up reliant on them. I'm totally down with zoning characters but I don't enjoy the method myself. Some people seem to like it but it's just too repetitive for me. I prefer to zone with fear.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I don't buy into the HIGH EXECUTION IS SACRED garbage. I really believe that all characters in all fighting games should have SoulCalibur-easy BnBs. You add depth in trickier stuff like position-sensitive/counterhit stuff, or godforfuckinbid the depth of a game be based around knowledge of spacing, situational awareness, mind games and thoughtful reads. IDGAF if you can pull off a one-frame link... seems wholly unnecessary given everything a fighting game can be. I see it mostly as a needless barrier. And this is from a guy that cut his teeth on Guilty Gear.
I love you. *obligatory no homo disclaimer*
That's all.

Edit: Not really. Just have to add that I feel sad my platform probably won't see Xrd. Never expected that from myself.
 
I don't buy into the HIGH EXECUTION IS SACRED garbage. I really believe that all characters in all fighting games should have SoulCalibur-easy BnBs. You add depth in trickier stuff like position-sensitive/counterhit stuff, or godforfuckinbid the depth of a game be based around knowledge of spacing, situational awareness, mind games and thoughtful reads. IDGAF if you can pull off a one-frame link... seems wholly unnecessary given everything a fighting game can be. I see it mostly as a needless barrier. And this is from a guy that cut his teeth on Guilty Gear. For me, MKX will be a numbers game. Accessibility = more players = more hilarious hate mail. Love me some dial-a-combos.

As far as IAFBs go, my only worry is that there will be a character I like that ends up reliant on them. I'm totally down with zoning characters but I don't enjoy the method myself. Some people seem to like it but it's just too repetitive for me. I prefer to zone with fear.
I'm basically on the same page, but I feel obligated to point out that SC does have Yoshi, Apat, voldo, tira angry angry orb girl, and a number of other "high execution" characters(depending on how you look at it). My point being that completely eliminating execution heavy characters seems pointless as there's plenty of people who do like that stuff. It just shouldn't be the status quo, and no one should ever think "they're difficult, so it's ok if they're op".
 

bettyswallaux

XBOXLive: BettySwallaux
I agree with over the top execution is unnecessary. Kabal was probably top 3 hardest execution wise in MK9 and with practise even I could use him competently. He wasn't ridiculous with execution but was hard enough that you felt like you accomplished learning something, just my opinion don't flame me! Also I am a fan of IAZoning moves and I enjoy to an extent the challenge of getting around them. As someone above said its when a character is built around that one move is where things start to suck, as much as we all hate kabal look how much more fun he was to use vs cyborg, this is because in my opinion I don't think NRS knew how good people would get with IAGB so they gave him a bunch of other tools too. On the other hand cyborg was built around that one move and lacks a few tools to make him a good character. Just my take on it :)
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I agree with over the top execution is unnecessary. Kabal was probably top 3 hardest execution wise in MK9 and with practise even I could use him competently. He wasn't ridiculous with execution but was hard enough that you felt like you accomplished learning something, just my opinion don't flame me! Also I am a fan of IAZoning moves and I enjoy to an extent the challenge of getting around them. As someone above said its when a character is built around that one move is where things start to suck, as much as we all hate kabal look how much more fun he was to use vs cyborg, this is because in my opinion I don't think NRS knew how good people would get with IAGB so they gave him a bunch of other tools too. On the other hand cyborg was built around that one move and lacks a few tools to make him a good character. Just my take on it :)
NRS guys know about building character around 1 powerful move and how it may end up making character have 8-2 MUs against some characters and 2-8 against others, simply depending on whether that another character has "get in for free" move or not.
I'm afraid that entire ordeal with variations is just their way to allow people to pick up secondaries easier just in case some of their designs end up without important tools for some MU. So then they can put stuff in the game hoping that counterpicking with variations will soften up potential issues with it while not making people too upset about having to have pocket something since: a) not everything is completely new and unfamiliar; b) due to amount of characters/variations in the game diversity may be preserved as, for example, several characters may end up with decent counterzoning for when you need to fight strong zoner, and chances are people will stick to such variation of their main instead of flocking onto one-variation-to-counterzone-them-all.
Or at least it'll take more time for people to figure everything out so that competitive meta won't get too boring way before NRS finishes IGAU2 :p
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Why aren't liu Kang's a problem?
I would say the lack of the knockdown from the buzzsaw, the gas blast > nomad dash into reset from airborne hits and the fact that gas balls have a bigger hurtbox.

Now you guys make it seem like Kabal's issue was his zoning which is not true at all. Iagb were mostly just annoying. It's a bigger issue in Injustice because movement is very limited, and you have to be very smart about where are you going. If you fuck up once you're back to square one.

MKX's movement looks very good, plus there's a run button.

I say: "it's whatever".
 
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Amplified$hotz

Done with MK1. Stop supporting a scam company
I would say the lack of the knockdown from the buzzsaw and the fact that gas balls have a bigger hurtbox.

Now you guys make it seem like Kabal's issue was his zoning which is not true at all. Iagb were mostly just annoying. It's a bigger issue in Injustice because movement is very limited, and you have to be very smart about where are you going. If you fuck up once you're back to square one.

MKX's movement looks very good, plus there's a run button.

I say: "it's whatever".
So the problem isn't just the projectile it's just the moveset with it?
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
So the problem isn't just the projectile it's just the moveset with it?
Yeah, Kuhbawls issue is that he can gain meter incredibly fast, get massive amounts of chip on you, then armor through everything you throw at him. Of course there's lot more stuff like the ability to standing reset you into more pressure and hitbox issues but the guy saying IAGB caused MUs to be 8-2 is being silly pie.
 
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Interesting. My two cents on it is while perfect instant air projectiles like IAGBs and even more so instant Zod balls take execution, I personally think angled air projectiles take a not necessarily higher skill level but definitely different skill level. As far as its spacings and such and can be very dominating if done correctly.