M2Dave's Friends of the Internet Most Recent Injustice: GAU Tier List

Ra Helios said:

Cossner is a I****. I can't believe you actually believe in what he said instead of asking me.

What a sheep

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I'm a sheep now? Even tho you apparently have an 18 hour work schedule and my post had nothing to do with Cossner?

Okay buddy.

In defense of @Ra Helios (because why the fuck not?), strictly playing offline probably amounts to a significantly smaller amount of experience overall than strictly playing online. Quantitatively speaking at least, maybe not qualitatively.

Lbsh though, I'm sure playing the game that much more allows for greater development in areas of gameplay aside from just those governed by the netcode too. Let's not entirely discredit the dude over the few frames of latency inherent in online play.

Rally Jackson said:

In defense of @Ra Helios (because why the fuck not?), strictly playing offline probably amounts to a significantly smaller amount of experience overall than strictly playing online. Quantitatively speaking at least, maybe not qualitatively.

Lbsh though, I'm sure playing the game that much more allows for greater development in areas of gameplay aside from just those governed by the netcode too. Let's not entirely discredit the dude over the few frames of latency inherent in online play.

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Some characters need reactionary gameplay to be their best. Online ruins that. Black Adam, Nightwing, Sinestro ,maybe every character suffers from this.

Amplified$hotz said:

Some characters need reactionary gameplay to be their best. Online ruins that. Black Adam, Nightwing, Sinestro ,maybe every character suffers from this.

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It has more to do which how certain players play.

Online favors the aggressor. Even characters with good footies can be played with braided offense.

Online favors that and only that.

AK L0rdoftheFLY said:

It has more to do which how certain players play.

Online favors the aggressor. Even characters with good footies can be played with braided offense.

Online favors that and only that.

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Yeah. Some characters entire games come from reactions,whiff punishing, etc. Characters take on whole new persona online. It sucks that you'll never really play the actual character.

How are either of you saying anything new? I acknowledged that offline experience is qualitatively superior (for the obvious reasons you felt the need to rehash for the millionth time) but that still discounts the fact that he's also getting to play the game way more period than someone who never plays online, and therefore possibly accelerating the development of his gameplay as a whole more too, and not just the aspects of it that take advantage of the netcode.

Rally Jackson said:

How are either of you saying anything new? I acknowledged that offline experience is qualitatively superior (for the obvious reasons you felt the need to rehash for the millionth time) but that still discounts the fact that he's also getting to play the game way more period than someone who never plays online, and therefore possibly accelerating the development of his gameplay as a whole more too, and not just the aspects of it that take advantage of the netcode.

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we all agree to this mentality...it is HE (ra helios) that won't agree to the other side of this.

All hail Ra Heilos are new Lord.........

Shaazzyam said:

You're so full of yourself all the time. It's repulsive, breh.

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okay dribirut

Rally Jackson said:

How are either of you saying anything new? I acknowledged that offline experience is qualitatively superior (for the obvious reasons you felt the need to rehash for the millionth time) but that still discounts the fact that he's also getting to play the game way more period than someone who never plays online, and therefore possibly accelerating the development of his gameplay as a whole more too, and not just the aspects of it that take advantage of the netcode.

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The problem is that this theoretical assumption that somebody "plays exclusively offline" doesn't work. Offline players that people ITT bring up all the time play a ton online as well as participating in offline events.

Focusing on that further makes a good (if basic) exercise in logic 101, but doesn't really help to address practical issues.

Barrogh said:

The problem is that this theoretical assumption that somebody "plays exclusively offline" doesn't work. Offline players that people ITT bring up all the time play a ton online as well as participating in offline events.

Focusing on that further makes a good (if basic) exercise in logic 101, but doesn't really help to address practical issues.

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It's not a theoretical assumption; it's fact. I was referring specifically to @GGA 16 Bit since he and @Ra Helios are always at the center of the great Catwoman debate. He has stated for the record that he does not ever play online.

And I made no commentary on the debate between more experience versus better experience. Bit has deliberately chosen to forego online experience in lieu of what his offline scene and tournament travels can provide him, and he's found much success that way, so anyone would be hard-pressed to argue that he's doing it wrong.

I merely made the observation that in addition to all of the bad habits Ra might be developing by playing online, he may also likely have more overall experience necessary to develop the good too (Catwoman's general gameplay, tech and matchups) if he's not limiting who and when he can play anywhere near as much. Whether or not the additional overall experience is worthwhile when it includes counter-productive online experience is not for me to give a crap about. Just pointing that fact out.

Rally Jackson said:

It's not a theoretical assumption; it's fact. I was referring specifically to @GGA 16 Bit since he and @Ra Helios are always at the center of the great Catwoman debate. He has stated for the record that he does not ever play online.

And I made no commentary on the debate between more experience versus better experience. Bit has deliberately chosen to forego online experience in lieu of what his offline scene and tournament travels can provide him, and he's found much success that way, so anyone would be hard-pressed to argue that he's doing it wrong.

I merely made the observation that in addition to all of the bad habits Ra might be developing by playing online, he may also likely have more overall experience necessary to develop the good too (Catwoman's general gameplay, tech and matchups) if he's not limiting who and when he can play anywhere near as much. Whether or not the additional overall experience is worthwhile when it includes counter-productive online experience is not for me to give a crap about. Just pointing that fact out.

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Fair enough, although I thought I've seen some online sets with bit. Maybe I was wrong.

Cossner said:

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such a fucked up movie haha

takeachance has to be trolling, how the fuck is this even happening.

I wanted Ares to be good so bad lol. His character is so cool and he is so fun to play :-(. Y is the god of war so bad at....well......war?

AK L0rdoftheFLY said:

we all agree to this mentality...it is HE (ra helios) that won't agree to the other side of this.

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Offline is superior. been admit that long time!!!!!!! but don't use idiotic excuses why you lost when its not the player or the online fault.

Like "can't punish catwoman jumps with a d2 because its online". Which again other people can easily punish me with d2. that not a online exploit. Its the player.

Online Exploit is when certain characters cannot punish certain moves and it can drastically change the mu. Like Black adam dive kick.

If yah going to say " Catwoman catdash is unpunishable online". Sorry its punishable. Every character can punish it. Tested it already. Easy to punish. Don't use that excuse.

of course you will have lag but if the connection good enough and both players don't use online tactics. Then you have a even playing field to fight.

But do not say If you lose " Its online!!!! Online don't count!!!! You are a scrub!!!!!!!!! and a bad player!!!!! because you cannot accept a lose.

Awkward Sloth said:

Ra do you really think when Bit goes to tournaments to play people he only plays a best of 2 or 3 set with them? After/before the tourney matches you don't think he gets casual matches with a wide verity of players with different play styles of the characters?

When Bit travels I'm 100% he plays tons of casuals with players that are considered very good with their respected character. So saying that his arguments only come from tournament matches is a bit silly.you have to admit that.

And Ra you know Bit was a tester for the game and had experience with playing Catwoman way before the game's release. He may not have mained the character in the beginning but I'm sure he knew more about the character going into the early stages of the games life than most.

This is kinda getting outta hand Ra, the posts started out somewhat on topic and then things went sour.

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No. But we were talking about stream. STREAM!!!!!! Go read what coolwhip quoted. Stream!!!! Most of the stream it will be first to 3 or 2.

So as Perfect legend with Catwoman but I believe Perfect Legend test out Catwoman more then 16 bit because he made a guide for CW for the Injustice Guide. Does that make him have more experience then me or know more about the character then me? He a tester. He test game. He does what a tester do.
Who went off topic? I never did. Ask the sheep. They are the ones went off topic.

Say :" baahhhhhh!!!!!"

They will answer.

General M2Dave said:

Mysterious? The contributors for this tier list were included in the first post a week ago.



Fool, I called for 16 Bit's job. If he downplayed Catwoman, I would say so. She is an average character with at least three losing 7:3 match ups. She is obviously not A tier.



And I strongly believe that Sagat sucks in USFIV. Therefore, my opinion must be as valuable as Bonchan's, who also has strong opinions.

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She has no 3-7. I'm now starting to realize that lex luther and catwoman is 4-6. She only have 5 losing mu. NO where near C Tier.

WoundCowboy said:

I am friends with 16 Bit and i still vehemently disagree with him on a number of topics. Helios is not being blown up because of his opinions per se, it's more because he cannot make coherent points as to why he feels that way. And yea, shocker, Catwoman is much harder to fight online. I don't care who is talking; I will call out people that make bad arguments and basically justify them with "because i said so". Bit is able to give specific reasons why he thinks CW is bad and struggles in some mus. Helios babbles on about how he once slightly LOST to somebody in an online set and how that determines the mu. There will be no coddling from me. If you make inflammatory and nonsensical posts, I am going to say something about it.

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I disagree. The reason why Cat-woman loses to Sinestro 4-6 is simply of Trait. Cat-woman can get around his zoning and can easily punish hes b1 and string if he don't space it properly. If it wasn't for hes trait then the mu will be a 5-5 because Sinestro has a great d2 and walk speed to go for a b1.

also her damage output and HKD also make this mu more manageable to play.


So this is babbling?

Batman should be a lot lower IMO.

Ra Helios said:

I disagree. The reason why Cat-woman loses to Sinestro 4-6 is simply of Trait. Cat-woman can get around his zoning and can easily punish hes b1 and string if he don't space it properly. If it wasn't for hes trait then the mu will be a 5-5 because Sinestro has a great d2 and walk speed to go for a b1.

also her damage output and HKD also make this mu more manageable to play.


So this is babbling?

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This is the first time you haven't just fist pumped your chest in this thread. Anyways, you underestimate B12. CW cannot punish it on a consistent basis. Sometimes it goes under B12 but more often she gets hit or they go through each other and are left far apart. The walk speed thing is also huge because CW has one of the worst walk speeds in the game and Sinestro has a good back walk. This means that she has to take risks like jumping, doing cat dash, and dashing to try and close the space; Sinestro punishes all of these into a vortex. One of her ways to try and get in, B3 is also risky because Sinestro usually makes it whiff because of his walk speed. If it whiffs, she gets punished hard. I don't see how this could only be 4-6 when all of the guessing games favor Sinestro. And as you said, trait is a problem for her. It doesn't help that he builds it almost for free in this MU.

WoundCowboy said:

This is the first time you haven't just fist pumped your chest in this thread. Anyways, you underestimate B12. CW cannot punish it on a consistent basis. Sometimes it goes under B12 but more often she gets hit or they go through each other and are left far apart. The walk speed thing is also huge because CW has one of the worst walk speeds in the game and Sinestro has a good back walk. This means that she has to take risks like jumping, doing cat dash, and dashing to try and close the space; Sinestro punishes all of these into a vortex. One of her ways to try and get in, B3 is also risky because Sinestro usually makes it whiff because of his walk speed. If it whiffs, she gets punished hard. I don't see how this could only be 4-6 when all of the guessing games favor Sinestro. And as you said, trait is a problem for her. It doesn't help that he builds it almost for free in this MU.

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Please God stop

Slips said:

How about a simple, 'This works for me online. But offline I'm not sure.'

That would be nice.

The dude doesn't play offline. Yet he comes off preaching strats that we all know don't work. We can't even get him to admit that 'maybe' the strats he uses are for online use only. It's ridiculous and you know it. He's claiming to be an expert in something he's never experienced. What makes it worse is that he claims that we, the ones that are actually playing offline, are the ones that are wrong. That is annoying and insulting to the people that actually do play offline.

I don't know how many more analogies I can make up for this dude, but it's like telling someone major league players in baseball aren't good hitters cause you smack fastballs in the batting cage all day. I mean come on man are you really defending this way of thinking?

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It will be better for you to say " This dude never participated in a offline event"

Because this "The dude doesn't play offline" Just sound Stupid on so many levels


Now you are comparing a Major League players to a Tournament players that any person can buy their way in Just to play a game?


Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The stupidity is real here.

A Tournament player can be buy their way in which can be a scrub or a good player compare to A Major League Players where They have to get drafted by going to college or being Notice by Important people that will sponosr you like Nike etc.

Have you ever worked hard like these people instead of sitting on your ass and play video games going to tournaments that anybody can be in?

Not anybody can be drafted to a Nba or any other Major League.

You have to earn it and no Paying your way in like you do when you play Injustice. Pay your way in to play.

Who has give you a 5year contract with 100,000 in writing?
What college you went to?
What big Sponsor pay you to where there gear?
What big sponsor get you to the Olympics?

Video game torunaments.

Pay your way in to Play.

A huge differents.

Stop reaching for something that isn't there.

Nba high level is not the same as College high level

High level VIdeo games Tournaments are the same as Onine high level of play.


The different in this is. You pay to play in a tournament and we discuss who is the best.

Ya travel so Ya should be considered the best but You are not the go to person if someone ask for help.
There is players out there that is better then you skill wise and do not need a resume or just have better experience then you with the character.
Like I said before if Online players have the transportation you and others would be irrelevant. PL, REO PIG AND OTHERS will be revelant. Thank God for you and other sake.

Just wanna mention one more time; look at what Ra is saying, and imagine the response if a "top player" said it.