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What Would TYM Rather see? (Khrome appreciation thread)

What would TYM Rather See?


  • Total voters
    107

9.95

Noob
Well, if I understand the purpose of this thread, it's not about the specifics. Like yeah, KTP took a hiatus before the recent drama, but the point is not about KTP per se, but what it represents. Likewise, it's not about the stock market in specific, but what it represents. What these things represent is a bunch of fun and hype, sometimes at the expense of some people, but it would be kinda cool if people grew thicker skins.

Instead, KTP can't continue because people overreact to any semi controversial statement. The stock markets, which are nothing but satire, are taken waaaaaaaay too seriously by a bunch of players because allegedly, a person "shouldn't be able to tell others how to feel about their performance" when I'm pretty sure that was never the purpose of the thread.

As far as popoffs go, again, it's about hype. Unfortunately, whenever specific people pop off, all we get is random appearances from the voice of the little guys lecturing us about egos and maturity (right before telling the naysayers to lick his testicles and suck his dick, of course), propaganda campaigns against the "leaders of the community" and talks about why they're bad for the scene, and sometimes, TYM bans.

It doesn't help when there are specific agendas against certain people. Like yeah, you can tell me Pig got banned the first time because he posted "porn" and it was against the rules (and of course, you'll link me to the rules to prove your point), but the fact is, it was a joke video about turtle penis. Get real. Pig was banned because he was Pig and this was seen as the right opportunity to do it by someone who had it in for him (can't wait for the inevitable denial). Likewise, the second ban, allegedly because Pig's infraction levels necessitated the ban, but the funniest thing is, nobody knows what was the final infraction that caused the ban, because many have denied that it was about his Facebook post.

I guess the point is, overmoderation is never a good thing. We went through this in early 2013, where all the top players left for a while until Injustice hit because the moderation was just out of control. I understand and firmly believe that a lot of the staff try to be as fair as possible while simultaneously enforcing the rules. But look at the situation we ended up with. A few very notable faces are gone, the hype is lacking, and just give it a while before you see how boring things will be. No, I'm not asking for drama, but there's always middle ground. Unfortunately, this is not it.

EDIT: I don't want to be too unfair. I realize that KTP and stock market threads used to get front paged. This is not directly a mod-related problem. But, we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't think other issues overlap, and affect seemingly separate issues. We know who's the driving force behind the KTP, and the author of the stock market. We also know that the staff is East Coast heavy. We know that members on the staff have been involved in the drama and we'd be kidding ourselves if we believe this doesn't affect the treatment guys like 16 Bit or Pig receive. Case in point, censoring "Jew of Steel" and threatening with a ban over that. Like, really? Is there a single person on TYM who was offended by "Jew of Steel"? If so, please speak up.

First of all, I appreciate the well thought out post with legitimate questions instead of the (usually) standard fare straight up mod bashing.

I'll try my best to address everything.

What these things represent is a bunch of fun and hype, sometimes at the expense of some people, but it would be kinda cool if people grew thicker skins.
Ok, yes, to some degree, thicker skins help, but the problem is (and has been) that more than once, it gets taken too far and even people with thick skin get offended or upset from time to time. Thicker skin tends to also set the bar higher for just how far you can push the envelope before you upset someone. We, as mods, have to have a line, and when that's crossed, even if it's only BARELY crossed, need to abide by that in order to maintain consistency and fairness. When that line is crossed too often, it has to end. If that means the end of something, then it has to be, at least temporarily, while people calm down and learn to control themselves. We don't resort to infracting immediately, generally warning, editing or a direct PM are our first attempts. Kind of like how spanking a kid shouldn't come before the stern look from a parent...and many times, that's all that's needed. In these cases, it required more. We can't help it, if, after penalties have been levied for breaking the rules, someone wants to take something away from the community. That's on them, not on us for properly (and with common sense) enforcing the rules that people agreed to abide by when they signed up. The people being named in the podcasts and posts aren't the only ones who need thicker skin...the people who crossed the line and got infracted for it need thicker skin to deal with their consequences as well. The door swings both ways.


As far as popoffs go, again, it's about hype. Unfortunately, whenever specific people pop off, all we get is random appearances from the voice of the little guys lecturing us about egos and maturity (right before telling the naysayers to lick his testicles and suck his dick, of course), propaganda campaigns against the "leaders of the community" and talks about why they're bad for the scene, and sometimes, TYM bans.
I think we need to separate popoff (spontaneous act, usually at a tournament) from call-out threads (premeditated attack on someone's gameplay, that usually devolves into chest beating, name calling, personal attacks and general poo flinging) from challenge threads (premiditated attack on someone's gameplay that usually involves challenge either online or MM at a tournament).

Popoffs - Haven't we all done it? I've popped off at a softball game after winning a difficult or close game. Nothing wrong with this, nothing to see here, move on.

Call Out Threads - Obviously, these can lead down a slippery slope of breaking MANY site rules. Generally, they can be resolved with the match simply being played instead of the poo flinging. We watch these threads and any posts against the rules get removed, any warnings or infractions are given(again, a last resort) and we move on. Thread is closed it if devolves too much.

Challenge Threads - Fine, including the gloating (as long as it stays civil) following the result of the match.

The biggest problem is that, while we have people who would generally just play the damn match and let the gameplay speak for itself, we also have a TON of people that wanna fan the flames and watch it devolve into something it was never meant to be. This is when the mods have to step in and remember that to be consistent, if that line is crossed, you do your job.


It doesn't help when there are specific agendas against certain people. Like yeah, you can tell me Pig got banned the first time because he posted "porn" and it was against the rules (and of course, you'll link me to the rules to prove your point), but the fact is, it was a joke video about turtle penis. Get real. Pig was banned because he was Pig and this was seen as the right opportunity to do it by someone who had it in for him (can't wait for the inevitable denial). Likewise, the second ban, allegedly because Pig's infraction levels necessitated the ban, but the funniest thing is, nobody knows what was the final infraction that caused the ban, because many have denied that it was about his Facebook post.
I hope you see the catch 22 here. You're asking a mod to man up and admit to banning someone, but only at the promise of crucifying him for denying that it was for anything other than it being porn. This isn't appreciated, so I'm letting you know, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a mod to step up and do his job, or you want to bash. You need to pick and deal with the consequences to your decision.

Contrary to what you think, generally the mod staff works together to deal with members. Not everyone is going to get along. Our method of dealing with this is to generally ask another mod to deal with it or ask advice before potentially over moderating someone who we may not care for. Maybe not a perfect system, but it works for the most part.

With regards to the turtle penis: It may have been a joke, but one in very poor taste and one of very poor judgement. It was very clearly meant as a joke, but the rules are VERY clear, NO PORN OF ANY KIND, and it's a zero tolerance policy. Cartoon or not, it was clearly a penis. Hentai would not be tolerated on this site nor will a digital penis, turtle or not. If it was a joke, post it on facebook and post a link to your FB in your status, but don't post it as a thread on TYM for potential children to see.

Finally, the infraction that causes a ban is, quite frankly, not anyone's business other than the Mods' and the person banned. The person can inquire as to what it was and then feel free to share, or keep it personal, but in no way, shape or form is it everyone's business.



I guess the point is, overmoderation is never a good thing. We went through this in early 2013, where all the top players left for a while until Injustice hit because the moderation was just out of control. I understand and firmly believe that a lot of the staff try to be as fair as possible while simultaneously enforcing the rules. But look at the situation we ended up with. A few very notable faces are gone, the hype is lacking, and just give it a while before you see how boring things will be. No, I'm not asking for drama, but there's always middle ground. Unfortunately, this is not it.
This is something that has happened every time we are in between games.
MKDC to MK9 - drama and problems
MK9 to Injustice - drama and problems
Injustice to MKX - see where this is going?

What you see as over moderation is what we see as TOO much drama and too many problems. Instead of being caught up in a new and exhilarating game and all the new gameplay, we're stuck in neutral waiting for a new game and now we're focusing our energies (negatively) on people and getting personal about it. More drama and problems means more moderating. You see it as over modding but only because the distraction of being bored lets you focus on US and what we are doing as mods more-so than focusing on new gameplay.


EDIT: I don't want to be too unfair. I realize that KTP and stock market threads used to get front paged. This is not directly a mod-related problem. But, we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't think other issues overlap, and affect seemingly separate issues. We know who's the driving force behind the KTP, and the author of the stock market. We also know that the staff is East Coast heavy. We know that members on the staff have been involved in the drama and we'd be kidding ourselves if we believe this doesn't affect the treatment guys like 16 Bit or Pig receive. Case in point, censoring "Jew of Steel" and threatening with a ban over that. Like, really? Is there a single person on TYM who was offended by "Jew of Steel"? If so, please speak up.
Again, contrary to popular belief, though the mods may be mainly East Coast, we have mods and admins from all over the country. Krayzie is EGP, Blake is AK, I'm from NY... but the point is, we try to look past regional stuff because regional rivalries have existed forever. It's part of what makes this fun. NY Giants vs. Dallas Cowboys. Without those rivalries, the NFL's legacy wouldn't be what it is, and the same goes for the MKC. Without the rivalries, what fun would this all be? We, as mods embrace the different regions... however all regions have people who cross lines, and we still have jobs to do. Sucks when it's a well known face, but think about Lindsay Lohan. She may be who she is, but it doesn't mean that she should get away with things and the cops shouldn't do their jobs.


Now the final thing. I've been asking people to man up a bunch of times the last 2 days. Now it's my turn.

I was the one that took issue with "Jew of Steel". (I didn't do the editing, however, I simply asked someone else to do it) Not because I was offended (I recognized the joke and I'm the first one to jokingly call myself short/fat/jew, etc), but I also recognized the slippery slope. I have never seen the "Muslim of Steel" or "Born again of Steel" or any other religious or racial denomination used in that way, and felt that it was completely unnecessary. The slippery slope, however, is that "Jew of Steel" can VERY quickly (especially with our oh-so-mature membership, LOL) devolve into "filthy Jew" which IS offensive.

Then I saw that the player had registered under that name, and who was I to take issue with that? It's no different than me calling myself a Jew. So, I rescinded my problem, and took no more issue with it.

That doesn't mean I'm not looking out for derogatory uses of ethnic/racial/religious/sexual words. I still am, but I'm also not perfect. 9.95 for a reason...gotta leave a little room for error!

Hope that clears some stuff up.
 

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
The Khrome Kouncil is always a Joke mate. Everything around this character is a joke

In all casual mk sites the guy is hated, and instantly discovered when he creates new threads with alternate accounts.
It's still beyond me how he managed to have such an impact in TYM.
Umm it's the Khrome Kommittee
 

coolwhip

Noob
Thanks for the reply as always. I'm only going to address the parts I disagree with, as a lot of what you said can't be disputed.

I hope you see the catch 22 here. You're asking a mod to man up and admit to banning someone, but only at the promise of crucifying him for denying that it was for anything other than it being porn. This isn't appreciated, so I'm letting you know, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a mod to step up and do his job, or you want to bash. You need to pick and deal with the consequences to your decision.

With regards to the turtle penis: It may have been a joke, but one in very poor taste and one of very poor judgement. It was very clearly meant as a joke, but the rules are VERY clear, NO PORN OF ANY KIND, and it's a zero tolerance policy. Cartoon or not, it was clearly a penis. Hentai would not be tolerated on this site nor will a digital penis, turtle or not. If it was a joke, post it on facebook and post a link to your FB in your status, but don't post it as a thread on TYM for potential children to see.

Finally, the infraction that causes a ban is, quite frankly, not anyone's business other than the Mods' and the person banned. The person can inquire as to what it was and then feel free to share, or keep it personal, but in no way, shape or form is it everyone's business.
OK, no. I'm not asking a mod to admit to banning someone. I know why Pig -- officially -- got banned the first time around. What I believe, is the fact that he was Pig of the Hut, and was feuding hard with some members of the staff, made the decision to ban him convenient. I actually am not asking those who banned him the first time to step up and admit to it. At this point, it's better off to leave this particular incident alone and put it behind us. However, I'll say this: Yes, I understand "rules are rules." I also understand that preferential treatment is a tricky issue (even though it exists, and is inevitable). But couldn't someone have simply PM'd Pig and went: "Hey Brant, about that video you posted, we're going to delete the thread. I know you just found it funny but it contained turtle penis, which falls under the porn category." The reason I say this is because we both know fully well that Pig's intention was not to post "porn." And yeah, I know that trying to read people's intentions is a slippery slope, but in this case, I think it's rather obvious. I doubt Pig's post had anything to do with reptilian fetish.

This is someone who does so much for the community and whose presence on TYM is extremely valuable. He organizes events, online tournaments, markets tournaments, etc... So would it not be reasonable to weigh in the pros and cons and deem that for this particular incident, maybe it's better if we just give him a warning? I mean the thread is deleted, no harm done. I would also like to add that the video Pig posted was found on Youtube, which has a strict no porn policy. In other words, turtle penis = porn is debatable. As such, a warning might have sufficed, instead of immediately resorting to the drastic measures. Sometimes, a slap on the wrist is better for the greater good than a public execution, especially factoring in the nature of the crime.

Honestly, it says a lot that everyone's reaction to that banning was a collective "WTF." That's not to say that we're telling the mods how to do their job but rather, that the mods misjudged that one. Perhaps we're all wrong, though.


Again, contrary to popular belief, though the mods may be mainly East Coast, we have mods and admins from all over the country. Krayzie is EGP, Blake is AK, I'm from NY... but the point is, we try to look past regional stuff because regional rivalries have existed forever. It's part of what makes this fun. NY Giants vs. Dallas Cowboys. Without those rivalries, the NFL's legacy wouldn't be what it is, and the same goes for the MKC. Without the rivalries, what fun would this all be? We, as mods embrace the different regions... however all regions have people who cross lines, and we still have jobs to do. Sucks when it's a well known face, but think about Lindsay Lohan. She may be who she is, but it doesn't mean that she should get away with things and the cops shouldn't do their jobs.
No absolutely, as I said above, I'm not saying certain people should get a pass. What I am saying is the rules should be less rigid, and sometimes, judgment calls are necessary, for the greater good. I think banning someone twice in three months, both of which being questionable calls in the eyes of many (yes, I'm aware that's not our job, and I'm aware this is "your site" as the rules say, but we're the ones posting on your site, and making it worthwhile, so our opinion matters), raises eyebrows in light of recent events. Pig got banned the second time for "flaming a mod" on Facebook. Nowhere in the rules did I read anything about extracurricular activities being ban-worthy offenses. His status update on TYM simply hoped for someone to be in his pool.

Trust me when I say this is not meant to revisit Pig's ban. He's gone. He deactivated his account, and the world keeps spinning. But you're clarifying your stance and I'm clarifying mine. Simple as that.

Now the final thing. I've been asking people to man up a bunch of times the last 2 days. Now it's my turn.

I was the one that took issue with "Jew of Steel". (I didn't do the editing, however, I simply asked someone else to do it) Not because I was offended (I recognized the joke and I'm the first one to jokingly call myself short/fat/jew, etc), but I also recognized the slippery slope. I have never seen the "Muslim of Steel" or "Born again of Steel" or any other religious or racial denomination used in that way, and felt that it was completely unnecessary. The slippery slope, however, is that "Jew of Steel" can VERY quickly (especially with our oh-so-mature membership, LOL) devolve into "filthy Jew" which IS offensive.

Then I saw that the player had registered under that name, and who was I to take issue with that? It's no different than me calling myself a Jew. So, I rescinded my problem, and took no more issue with it.

That doesn't mean I'm not looking out for derogatory uses of ethnic/racial/religious/sexual words. I still am, but I'm also not perfect. 9.95 for a reason...gotta leave a little room for error!

Hope that clears some stuff up.
I respect the fact that you "manned up" (your words). I think the fact that he registered as Jew of Steel the following week was an indication that in that particular case, it would have been better to let it slide. It kinda highlights my point: context matters. I know that as mods, you can't bother to look into the back-story of every single comment made by every single poster, and sometimes, yes: rules ARE rules. But in this case, this was obvious, as it pertained to a rather well-known player, and it was a clear joke (made by another extremely well-known player) among friends. What I mean is the fact that they're so well-known made the Jew of Steel common knowledge. As in, we know GGA joke among themselves and Jew of Steel, when left at that (which they did) is hardly the most offensive thing in the world. Again, I'm not one to tell mods how to do their job but perhaps seeking clarification before censoring and handing out ban threats in certain situations, might work better.
 
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Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
It's clear where my poll is going. People who are for the "new new" leaf era are voting for Khrome as a copout (as expected). This "revolution" is the minority. It's time for apologies. I'm all about not letting things get personal like calling out stuff about people's lives, but it's gotten to the point where we can't call people idiots anymore. The Viscant vs. LTG money match had more views than some EVO FINALS. Bad blood needs to return as it builds hype and marketability. The most popular player in Starcraft for years was Idra. Not because he was the best (he was no where close), but because he was going against the grain and calling people out and talking shit the entire time. We don't need to completely remove blowups because they hurt people's feelings.

@General M2Dave regulate these fools.
 

coolwhip

Noob
It's clear where my poll is going. People who are for the "new new" leaf era are voting for Khrome as a copout (as expected). This "revolution" is the minority. It's time for apologies. I'm all about not letting things get personal like calling out stuff about people's lives, but it's gotten to the point where we can't call people idiots anymore. The Viscant vs. LTG money match had more views than some EVO FINALS. Bad blood needs to return as it builds hype and marketability. The most popular player in Starcraft for years was Idra. Not because he was the best (he was no where close), but because he was going against the grain and calling people out and talking shit the entire time. We don't need to completely remove blowups because they hurt people's feelings.

@General M2Dave regulate these fools.
No, didn't you hear? The mentality whereby people get blown up when they post inaccuracies and ludicrous match-up opinions shouldn't be blown up. I swear there are like, 20 people at most who are for this "be on your best behavior, love your fellow players/posters at all time, never say anything negative about anything ever, and don't be a Mean Girl" and somehow they've become a vocal minority.

I'll just remind everyone that this is the FGC.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
No, didn't you hear? The mentality whereby people get blown up when they post inaccuracies and ludicrous match-up opinions shouldn't be blown up. I swear there are like, 20 people at most who are for this "be on your best behavior, love your fellow players/posters at all time, never say anything negative about anything ever, and don't be a Mean Girl" and somehow they've become a vocal minority.

I'll just remind everyone that this is the FGC.
You're free. Let's go :DOGE
 

9.95

Noob
It's clear where my poll is going. People who are for the "new new" leaf era are voting for Khrome as a copout (as expected). This "revolution" is the minority. It's time for apologies. I'm all about not letting things get personal like calling out stuff about people's lives, but it's gotten to the point where we can't call people idiots anymore. The Viscant vs. LTG money match had more views than some EVO FINALS. Bad blood needs to return as it builds hype and marketability. The most popular player in Starcraft for years was Idra. Not because he was the best (he was no where close), but because he was going against the grain and calling people out and talking shit the entire time. We don't need to completely remove blowups because they hurt people's feelings.

@General M2Dave regulate these fools.

So what's the happy medium? I'm glad you're vocal about it, but now I'm gonna put you on the spot. Are you willing to be the bad guy? Are you willing to step up to the plate and come up with a PLAUSIBLE solution, or do you just want to post that you're mad that you can't just go around randomly creating threads clearly aimed at hurting people's feelings? If it's the latter, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself, "Do I like competition or am I just a drama queen?"

If you like competition, there's a way of being sportsmanlike and still making bold statements. (Look up the Joe Namath Super Bowl III Guarantee)
or

Going out of your way to purposely insult someone or make a thread specifically to attack them isn't gonna fly. The problem is, all too often we see it get taken out of the context of the game, and that's when the line is crossed. How do you propose to stop people from crossing the line? How do you propose to be FAIR and CONSISTENT in the way you punish people who cross that line? How do you propose to do the job correctly without coming across as biased toward one person or another and giving a free pass to others?

It ain't easy bein' green, but I'm still not afraid to be the bad guy and infract someone. Are you?
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
This kind of thing has happened on every MK site ever!

Mortalkombatonline.com was terrible for this back in the day. Then MKC eventually had the same problem then MKU led to the creation of TYM. It was great at first then it got terrible.

It comes from the idea that site leadership needs to "tighten up" and get organized. Rules start to be enforced more rigidly where before, people really did take the approach that Cool Whip stated above. When this rigidity is questioned it is always the "rules are rules" excuse.

This is a website that supports tournament level play. With that comes drama, fights, MM, hype, shit talk, and bad blood. Posters should be communicated to prior to action being taken. Action only happens when that poster decides not to change or adjust their behavior.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I believe we need to change that mentality.
If someone said Lex beat Zod and created a detailed list of why, with concrete information and not just a baseless opinion I agree, then sure its fine. But someone just saying so because they are pulling it out of their ass or because they beat the kid down the blocks zod definitely should be regulated in some way. I would rather have mods infracting these people for useless posts than offtopic stuff in troll threads or front page news.

If I feel like it, ill make a thread tonight about what makes good MU discussion vs bad MU discussion. Its not hard to understand, but so many posts are "x character is free to y character lol" and "just jump" or something similar as their only talking points. I want to just have some guidelines to link to when the MU discussion becomes a cesspool again for MKX.
 

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
If someone said Lex beat Zod and created a detailed list of why, with concrete information and not just a baseless opinion I agree, then sure its fine. But someone just saying so because they are pulling it out of their ass or because they beat the kid down the blocks zod definitely should be regulated in some way. I would rather have mods infracting these people for useless posts than offtopic stuff in troll threads or front page news.

If I feel like it, ill make a thread tonight about what makes good MU discussion vs bad MU discussion. Its not hard to understand, but so many posts are "x character is free to y character lol" and "just jump" or something similar as their only talking points. I want to just have some guidelines to link to when the MU discussion becomes a cesspool again for MKX.
I totally agree with this Dizzy.