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its been 17 months. lets solidify a top 5

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
As much as I don't want to say this, I don't think Flash is top 5. Top 10, yes.
I don't see who else would take his spot, the only other possible contenders are Bane WoWo and Sinestro but Flash has the least losing matchups out of them so I'd choose Flash
 

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
I don't see who else would take his spot, the only other possible contenders are Bane WoWo and Sinestro but Flash has the least losing matchups out of them so I'd choose Flash
What is your reasoning for not thinking Superman is a top 5 candidate? I obviously don't think he's top 5 myself but some people seem to think so.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
What is your reasoning for not thinking Superman is a top 5 candidate? I obviously don't think he's top 5 myself but some people seem to think so.
His nerfs hit him pretty hard but I'd say he's still a top 10 character. He doesn't really dominate anyone anymore, just alot of 6-4's. I'd put Flash above him because Superman loses to top tiers like Zod MMH Aqua Sinestro and Flash doesn't.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
I was just about to throw a Freddy into that mix as well. MK9 definitive top 4 was Kabal, Kenshi, Cyrax and Sonya.
Yeah that 5th spot is debatable between KL and Freddy. I'd say Freddy takes it because KL has more losing matchups and Freddy has more 7-3's and does just as well vs the top tier or better actually than KL.

Freddy does better against Cyrax Sonya Cage Kitana which are all big tournament characters
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
freddy is debatable, but lao has no matchup worse than 6 4 and he dominates multiple characters, top 5 #YEEEAAPPP
Freddy dominates multiple characters too and has no matchups worse than 6-4. And he does better vs alot of tournament characters such as Sonya, Kitana, Cage, Cyrax, etc.
 
Freddy dominates multiple characters too and has no matchups worse than 6-4. And he does better vs alot of tournament characters such as Sonya, Kitana, Cage, Cyrax, etc.
smoke destroys freddy, at least 7 3. Also characters like kenshi/ raiden/ mileena/ etc. lao does better. So let's not forget that :p
 
I mean if we throw in bane, he bops a lot of characters, but has some losing matchups (like zod but zod does it worse in the eyes of most I would say). Bane, Flash, and Supes are very close to each other matchup wise. We'd need an agreed upon matchup chart for each character to separate them I believe.
 

BlackViper415

TYM's Head Herpetologist
1. Martian Manhunter
2. Meta Knight
3. Ivan Ooze
4. Kabal
5. Roger Chillingworth

Doctor Doom and Akuma round out the top 7.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
I mean a vortex is like the best thing to possess in a fighting game (especially safe ones). No one wants to have to guess versus a character, that crap sucks :p.
P.S. If scorpion had a safe vortex in mk9........... I dnt even need to go further about that lol.
While I agree that the meterless vortex is good, I would ask if you would rather have that or be able to take 60% for 1 bar + trait that leads to a 50/50 to take the rest of their life? Either way you are making them guess for their life. I really don't see the difference.

When you compare Batgirl to Flash, it seems like he can do everything she does but just a little better. His tools for getting in and footsies are much stronger than hers. His forward dash is amazing, his b2 is faster than her b1, LC is the ultimate long-range punisher, speed dodge is great for dealing with interactables/zoning. Head to head they are a 5-5 MU, but I would actually give the slight edge to Flash on most stages.
 
Kabal Cyrax Kenshi Sonya Lao Freddy Cage Kitana Jax Smoke
After the top 5 for MK, things can get tricky actually. After I'd say freddy and smoke for sure, the 8-10 spot can be fought for by Cage, kitana, reptile, jax, scarlet. So making a top 10 can be tough for sure when it comes to mk9 after the top 5.
 
While I agree that the meterless vortex is good, I would ask if you would rather have that or be able to take 60% for 1 bar + trait that leads to a 50/50 to take the rest of their life? Either way you are making them guess for their life. I really don't see the difference.

When you compare Batgirl to Flash, it seems like he can do everything she does but just a little better. His tools for getting in and footsies are much stronger than hers. His forward dash is amazing, his b2 is faster than her b1, LC is the ultimate long-range punisher, speed dodge is great for dealing with interactables/zoning. Head to head they are a 5-5 MU, but I would actually give the slight edge to Flash on most stages.
I'm taking a vortex all day because it is continuous. Like for example, compare Evil ryu to Akuma (before deleayed wakeup but akuma can still mix people up tho). Evil Ryu could easily land one combo and take about 35 percent to 40 percent and drain a lot of health just like that. Akuma however could just land something as simple as a sweep and mix you up multiple times. It is very scary when someone can put you in the same position and you have to guess right or keep losing health. Batgirl is like that, and if you were watching sonicfox at summer jam, he utilized multiple things that make her vortex from a 50/50 to like a 16/16/16 etc. So in conclusion, vortex for the win always. Damage is good, but vortexes are king in fighting games.
Edit: Batgirl can actually zone some characters (unlike flash), she has a teleport which blows up interactables and anti airs, more rewarding wakeups, etc. If flash had a teleport and some kind of zoning, I'd put him above her, but he doesn't.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
I'm taking a vortex all day because it is continuous. Like for example, compare Evil ryu to Akuma (before deleayed wakeup but akuma can still mix people up tho). Evil Ryu could easily land one combo and take about 35 percent to 40 percent and drain a lot of health just like that. Akuma however could just land something as simple as a sweep and mix you up multiple times. It is very scary when someone can put you in the same position and you have to guess right or keep losing health. Batgirl is like that, and if you were watching sonicfox at summer jam, he utilized multiple things that make her vortex from a 50/50 to like a 16/16/16 etc. So in conclusion, vortex for the win always. Damage is good, but vortexes are king in fighting games.
Edit: Batgirl can actually zone some characters (unlike flash), she has a teleport which blows up interactables and anti airs, more rewarding wakeups, etc. If flash had a teleport and some kind of zoning, I'd put him above her, but he doesn't.
It's continuous but all you need to do is 100%. If Flash catches you with a b2 (superior footsie tool to anything BG has) He takes 100% if he makes you guess wrong one more time. It's going to take BG opening you up with lesser tools and then making you guess wrong more times to reach that 100%.

About SF4, explain why Seth and Ibuki were not as good as Akuma in AE? Most likely Akuma was not just good because of vortex but also the tools that he had to compliment/access it.
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
After the top 5 for MK, things can get tricky actually. After I'd say freddy and smoke for sure, the 8-10 spot can be fought for by Cage, kitana, reptile, jax, scarlet. So making a top 10 can be tough for sure when it comes to mk9 after the top 5.
i agree it can get really close because there are a lot of characters that are good and all close to eachother, but i think cage kitana jax are infront of smoke. Cage for sure imo lol, smoke has really good normals and a reset, but he lacks a way of gettin out of things. it's also kind of crappy that he has no real string mixups or a mid faster than 13-15 frames. he has a really good overhead though so that's always nice. if you compare him to cage though cage outshines him everywhere pretty easily aside from having shake.
 
It's continuous but all you need to do is 100%. If Flash catches you with a b2 (superior footsie tool to anything BG has) He takes 100% if he makes you guess wrong one more time. It's going to take BG opening you up with lesser tools and then making you guess wrong more times to reach that 100%.

About SF4, explain why Seth and Ibuki were not as good as Akuma in AE? Most likely Akuma was not just good because of vortex but also the tools that he had to compliment/access it.
in AE, seth and ibuki were considered top 10 pretty much. Only difference with akuma is he possessed more tools than them overall. They were (and still are) good characters. Also Flash landing a b2 isn't going to happen that easily because he doesn't really outfootsie characters for the most part. Also flash has to watch for a wakeup, backdash, jump back, and etc. after a trait combo. Batgirl just has to hit you than standing reset you for another mixup. Also it isn't hard for batgirl to get the vortex going lol, actually she can get that going easier than he can get his trait combo going. Flash could be top 5, but him being better than batgirl????? heard that one from some at evo, going to have to call that a bill :p