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Beliefs, Non-Beliefs, Worldviews and Philosophy v2.0

LesMore

Top 8 Injustice Frosty Faustings VII
Why is having kids opposed to enjoying your life? Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but I've heard a lot of people say they don't want kids because they feel they'll suddenly stop living "the good life" if they do.

Which begs the question, what is "the good life"?

I assume it's smoking, taking drugs and having a lot of sex with multiple women. Because those are pretty much the only things that would need to stop if you ever decided to "settle down" and have a child.
Just because people settle down and have kids doesn't mean they stop smoking, drinking and having sex with multiple women....
 

Hades

Noob
I struggle to believe in anything spiritual or religious and to be honest i only really think of things logically. I just can't see in my mind how something like that can be real if i can't physically, see, hear or feel it no matter how hard i try.

No, rather than being spiritual or religious i choose to live my life as positively as possible and i try to be as enthusiastic as i can in everything i do. I'm not judgemental people can believe in whatever they want its when people try forcing their religion down your throat or pull the old 'your a bad person' because i don't believe in a god. Well in my mind there is no heaven, no hell and no afterlife. To me life is about the way you live it and nothing i do impacts anything spiritually in my life or will cause me to burn in hell.

Because in the end we all live life, enjoy life and life ends. To me there is no afterlife, no rebirth just life. You choose how you enjoy your life and theres no big reward for living a good life in the way of god. Because in the end bad shit still happens to good people and good shit happens to bad people, theres no god controlling or no higher power watching over us. In the end we're all brought into this world the same its the way your life goes that you decide and nobody else
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
It's always amusing to me when people say Atheism is a religion or that it has some kind of doctrine. Atheism is the default position, everyone is born an Atheist. Because like I've said over and over, all being an Atheist means is that you lack belief in a supernatural being or beings. It's extremely hard to have a discussion with someone when your definition of the words you're using differ from one another.

I was going to say a lot more, and had quoted people and typed responses, but I'll just leave it for the time being. There's no use even arguing with someone who bases their arguments on ad hominems. I've said so much on this topic before, repeating myself seems futile. I'd rather discuss more interesting stuff. Like stuff that stimulates the mind, not dulls it.

However, one of the things I dislike about religious people is when they say without God, my life has no value. Or that without a high power, life has no meaning or purpose. Can someone explain to me in a coherent manner what they're saying or at least attempt to? And if you agree, please explain why? You don't have to, I just always wanted to discuss that certain point/argument.
 

NKZero

Noob
However, one of the things I dislike about religious people is when they say without God, my life has no value. Or that without a high power, life has no meaning or purpose. Can someone explain to me in a coherent manner what they're saying or at least attempt to? And if you agree, please explain why? You don't have to, I just always wanted to discuss that certain point/argument.
I think what religious people are trying to convey is that the concept of an afterlife is solely attached to belief in a higher power. If you don't believe in a higher power, then life ends when you die on earth. So in other words, your existence on earth all leads up to...nothing. I think that's the idea, rather than saying the actual life on earth is meaningless. After all, religious people believe that this life is some sort of test to prove one's worthiness in life after death. Did you do 'well' enough in this lifetime to warrant a place in heaven etc.? So I think that belief in God is the only way to reach this absolute goal, hence rendering our life on earth not as grand in relative terms.

I'm religious (Muslim) and I think it's a little extreme to think that life has no meaning or purpose without God, yet I can understand why it is said. Considering that we owe everything to God, we thank God, we pray to God and we spend a lot of our lives in dedication and devotion towards Him, you can see why people might think that the main purpose of our life on earth is to serve God. If there is no God, what are we doing with our lives? However, while I do worship God etc., I also know that my life is in my hands, that I have duties to take care of, tasks to perform etc. I feel like God is a guidance but that's it. I personally think God has put us here and left us to run our own lives, with a watchful eye on what transpires of course ;).

Hope that explains things.
 
Yes I'd love it if people stopped looking at me with disgust when I'm with my boyfriend in public (not kissing or feeling each other up, just holding hands). I'd love it if people didn't actively campaign against equal rights for me.

Saying people should mind their own business is all very well and good, but when religion and religious organisations work to deny people rights and spread misinformation that's when I take issue and will not sit quietly and accept it.
I think you should look at them with disgust because they are miserable.

As for all hate campaigns and religious acts, let's sit comfortable and enjoy watching them fade out.
Evolution and progress: This world is a better place now than every other point in our history. As we go on, even better days are coming. Days without racial or sexual prejudice and of course without Prophets of god(s).
 

Amplified$hotz

Done with MK1. Stop supporting a scam company
I think you should look at them with disgust because they are miserable.

As for all hate campaigns and religious acts, let's sit comfortable and enjoy watching them fade out.
Evolution and progress: This world is a better place now than every other point in our history. As we go on, even better days are coming. Days without racial or sexual prejudice and of course without Prophets of god(s).
Do you live in the United States by any chance? Most of the people saying this don't live in the middle east, Africa, El Salvador, etc.
 

aj1701

Noob
I'm an atheist because everything religion is based on is man-made. All books, stories, folklore, are made by man and are just stories.

I think religion was originally created to spread moral and make life goals. I do not think there is actually any sort of "higher power" because in reality that "higher power" is just yourself.
Agreed. I think what happens is that people eventually figure out that if they settle down, cooperate and start specializing (which is what money allows society to do) we are better off.. but if you have some jackass that just takes what they want and generally causes mayhem it all falls apart, and we're back to warring tribes struggling to survive. Logic wouldn't have worked against animals that just do whatever they want, so you need to find some way to control them; so make up a myth about some all powerful being that is always present and wants you to act a certain way, and fear keeps them in line and we can actually have a society.

We're at a point now though were most people can be logically reasoned with and understand the value of treating others with respect and contributing by participating in society, so religion isn't really needed anymore.
 

aj1701

Noob
I've always wondered why humanity doesn't just stop what they're doing, lay down like a starfish, and just die.
Starfish don't just lay down and die; no living thing does, every living thing tries its hardest to survive. Humans are a bit beyond just survival though.
 

aj1701

Noob
Objectively, atheists are ultimately useless and serve no purpose other than hate, spread hate and reject/spit on other people's beliefs/spirituality. They have every right not to believe in a god. But when they look down on theists and try to convince believers that what they believe in is "wrong" or "stupid", then atheists prove they aren't worth anyone's attention or respect. Because they become no better than cult extremists.
I disagree. I see religion as an archaic element in human history; we needed it to hold society together in the past, but its long outlived its usefulness. Why is believing in the Cristian god accepted but if I said I worshiped a magic fairy that dictated how I live I'd might be diagnosed with neurosis? The answer is only that there are a large number of people that being in Christianity and very few that believe in the all powerful fairy.

Atheists base their disbelief on lack of proof, saying things like "I'll believe in god when I see him/her/it or when science proves him/her/it". Of course, anyone with an IQ higher than 60 understands that science and empiricism cannot research, prove or disprove anything that is of the metaphysical realm.
Correct; so my question is they why continue to believe something that may or may not be there? Something that really seems to have no impact in your life except that you decide to believe something that cannot be proven?

Whether these primitive atheists are aware of it or not remains uncertain to me. Regardless, they continue to believe that matter is all that matters and that there is no such thing as a human soul, a designer, a purpose to life or an afterlife. So being atheist is essentially accepting to live a meaningless materialist YOLO life with no purpose or spirituality.
How do you know there is such a thing as a human soul? What if all we are really is a collection of biochemical processes? How do you explain that passive people become violent when a certain part of their brain is damaged? Or other personality changes that occur due to physical trauma? Its interesting that you're talking down about atheists because they can't prove there isn't an afterlife, yet you can't prove there is one either. And why do you seem to think atheists believe life is meaningless or that I have no purpose? I consider myself an atheist, yet I feel I have a purpose and my life (and other's) have meaning.

So again, Atheism is an utterly useless and pointless doctrine with no other purpose than hating on, discrediting and devaluing other cultures and their spiritual beliefs. It is unneeded and it is more cancerous than all religions combined. Considering its only goal is to provoke, agitate, increase tensions and encourage theists to adopt more extremist positions to defend their views and their fundamental rights.
Interesting, as that's what I consider religion to be. You might be curious to read philosophers who came to arrive at the same moral code most religions preach by logic alone.

I also find it interesting that religious people have been murdering hundreds of years ago (the Crusades) just as they continue to do today, for example ISIS beheading people in Iraq, all because the religious people in Iraq can't seem to get along. When was the last time an atheist faction waged war on anyone?
 

aj1701

Noob
Why is having kids opposed to enjoying your life? Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but I've heard a lot of people say they don't want kids because they feel they'll suddenly stop living "the good life" if they do.

Which begs the question, what is "the good life"?

I assume it's smoking, taking drugs and having a lot of sex with multiple women. Because those are pretty much the only things that would need to stop if you ever decided to "settle down" and have a child.
I don't consider being responsible for another person's life enjoyable, especially with all there is to worry about in today's world. Not that I have any issue with people that want children, its just not for me.

Nothing wrong with smoking, drugs or sex as long as you're responsible / honest. But that's not all the stops when kids come around. My wife go out to dinner / movies, go to plays, jazz concerts, etc., we went for a few days to Montreal to experience the city (museums, botanical gardens, etc). Its also not really feasible to be able to pick up and just move somewhere else to experience living in another part of the country, or even another country. Kids are expensive and require near constant attention for at least 18 years; for most people it means staying put, not going out, not traveling, so to say having kids doesn't require a lot of sacrifices is a bit naïve.
 

aj1701

Noob
The Bible never said to hate gays. Show me those contradictions. There is continuity. I'm not buying into the whole born gay/straight thing yet. And have you read it
What does it matter if your are born gay or chose to be? It makes no difference either way, aren't people free to choose to live their life? How does being gay hurt you?

And you really need to read it again if you don't think there are any contradictions. Hell there are books of the bible that used to be in it but the church removed and replaced with other books.

Yes I've read it; I went to Catholic school.
 

Flagg

Noob
Why is oblivion so unappealing to everyone?

I believe a person dying is no different to something like an electronic device dying or switching off.

Anyways, why is it impossible for a philosophy thread to not descend into a religious war? I'm sick of the holier than thou Christian side who cannot grasp a simple concept that people are born gay, they don't choose that way of life...alternately I also cannot bare the smug, passive aggressive atheist slant as well.

I don't believe in God either. I've long stopped trying to convince people otherwise. I believe in Evolution and the natural, physical world around me and I've been educated in such subjects to Degree standard.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
The most salient point of the whole debate right here. When I moved to America I was in complete disbelief that my biology teacher had to state that we were going to cover evolution and that if anyone was offended they could leave! This is incredibly tame too, other parts of America clearly have it much worse. This type of shit never happens in Scotland. You can believe what you want, but the second it starts interfering with my education I have a massive problem with it.
I can confirm this doesn't happen in Scotland
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
This is probably going to sound weird but here's what I believe:

I believe that every day is a dream, and when you wake up "the next morning" you're really just waking up from the dream that is yesterday into a 'layer' less of your dreams. I think you're already dead or at the very end and you're just living through every day, as the memories they are, in your dream(s). When you try to remember yesterday or any day in the past you recall it the same way as you recall something you experienced in your dreams, right? And you most likely don't remember absolutely everything that happened the previous day the same way you don't remember everything that happened in your dream.

Deja vu is the icing on the cake with my theory. At some point you feel like you've already experienced something and you understand it as deja vu because that's what you've been told it is and it's just "your brain messing up" or something like that. Thing is, at least in terms of this theory of mine, you have experienced it. It's one of the days you've experienced through your life- remember your body is already at the end and so has already experienced every day you've lived. You having "deja vu" in, say, 'day 1246' is your brain recalling another memory from a different day in your life.

A day is just a very lucid dream in my opinion, everything you see, do, hear, touch, etc is a projection of your mind. Other people are projections of your mind. The way they speak, move and do what they do is something your mind has created and you experience. There's probably flaws in my theory but whatever, that's what I believe haha.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
This is probably going to sound weird but here's what I believe:

I believe that every day is a dream, and when you wake up "the next morning" you're really just waking up from the dream that is yesterday into a 'layer' less of your dreams. I think you're already dead or at the very end and you're just living through every day, as the memories they are, in your dream(s). When you try to remember yesterday or any day in the past you recall it the same way as you recall something you experienced in your dreams, right? And you most likely don't remember absolutely everything that happened the previous day the same way you don't remember everything that happened in your dream.

Deja vu is the icing on the cake with my theory. At some point you feel like you've already experienced something and you understand it as deja vu because that's what you've been told it is and it's just "your brain messing up" or something like that. Thing is, at least in terms of this theory of mine, you have experienced it. It's one of the days you've experienced through your life- remember your body is already at the end and so has already experienced every day you've lived. You having "deja vu" in, say, 'day 1246' is your brain recalling another memory from a different day in your life.

A day is just a very lucid dream in my opinion, everything you see, do, hear, touch, etc is a projection of your mind. Other people are projections of your mind. The way they speak, move and do what they do is something your mind has created and you experience. There's probably flaws in my theory but whatever, that's what I believe haha.
That's a very solipsistic world view. It's also highly deterministic. Your world view implies that you have no free will, no choice. Everything that happens is pre-destined, it's just reliving a memory.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
That's a very solipsistic world view. It's also highly deterministic. Your world view implies that you have no free will, no choice. Everything that happens is pre-destined, it's just reliving a memory.
Me no know big words :DOGE

I mean that's one analysis of it, I just think of it differently. It's not necessarily pre-destined to happen, as at the moment in time you're living through your memories you can't tell what's going to happen, and your brain can sometimes distort memories. That's why sometimes people are sure they've remembered something but the opposite actually happened.
 

Rodrigue

Spongerod
This is probably going to sound weird but here's what I believe:

I believe that every day is a dream, and when you wake up "the next morning" you're really just waking up from the dream that is yesterday into a 'layer' less of your dreams. I think you're already dead or at the very end and you're just living through every day, as the memories they are, in your dream(s). When you try to remember yesterday or any day in the past you recall it the same way as you recall something you experienced in your dreams, right? And you most likely don't remember absolutely everything that happened the previous day the same way you don't remember everything that happened in your dream.

Deja vu is the icing on the cake with my theory. At some point you feel like you've already experienced something and you understand it as deja vu because that's what you've been told it is and it's just "your brain messing up" or something like that. Thing is, at least in terms of this theory of mine, you have experienced it. It's one of the days you've experienced through your life- remember your body is already at the end and so has already experienced every day you've lived. You having "deja vu" in, say, 'day 1246' is your brain recalling another memory from a different day in your life.

A day is just a very lucid dream in my opinion, everything you see, do, hear, touch, etc is a projection of your mind. Other people are projections of your mind. The way they speak, move and do what they do is something your mind has created and you experience. There's probably flaws in my theory but whatever, that's what I believe haha.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Me no know big words :DOGE

I mean that's one analysis of it, I just think of it differently. It's not necessarily pre-destined to happen, as at the moment in time you're living through your memories you can't tell what's going to happen, and your brain can sometimes distort memories. That's why sometimes people are sure they've remembered something but the opposite actually happened.
But that doesn't make logical sense. Even if you're reliving a memory you haven't remembered correctly, your actions are still predetermined as the memory plays out. And if you can change your memory on one day, does that change all subsequent memories/days? Then isn't it pointless that you're reliving past memories since essentially you're not living a memory you're just living a new life in situ?
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
But that doesn't make logical sense. Even if you're reliving a memory you haven't remembered correctly, your actions are still predetermined as the memory plays out. And if you can change your memory on one day, does that change all subsequent memories/days? Then isn't it pointless that you're reliving past memories since essentially you're not living a memory you're just living a new life in situ?
As I said your brain controls everything and produces what you experience. In your dreams is every action predetermined or does it continue to be affected by your brain and what it tells you or controls in your dream? If your memory changes one day it won't affect the other following days, that's what I was saying about how people can sometimes incorrectly recall memories from past days.