Myths and bills: You've been deputized

Zyphox said:

well i didn't really go into much detail, but i think being able to punish guns is really crucial in teh MU. i dont get how people say flash has a neutral weakness either, he has the fast dash, long range over head and b2. his d2, and d1 are great for stuffing dash that give him 41% to 55% for trying to dash in on him, which is a lot more than other character get. you can't name me a character that can punish you for more damage for dashing in than flash. he has a great AA and great ways to approach (IE LC makes you duck and RMS makes you move + fastest dash, SP, 50/50 after a J2). i think flash has a top 5 neutral game, which is why i was able to beat really good players in tournament that already knew all my bullshit set ups. flash has an answer for everything. also flash has top 3 best wake up options in the game, he has two fully invincible wake ups. one that givees you space if you try to cross him up (if you do a f3 set up and i LC i just go full screen safely). LK can be canceled with a dash and made fully invincible also beats out command grabs and full launches for 55% with trait. SP catch you off guard when you try baiting LC for full combo. Shake is good for when a projectile or single hitting move is throw out like martain tele. don't know what flash exp you have but these are my talking points. flash IMO out footsies DS, AA him very well, and can approach DS better than DS can approach him.

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Crathen has already done extensive work on stuffing all of Flash's wakeups, I'll let him take it from there, but suffice to say he takes care of it. Flash's neutral is whack BECAUSE he must approach, and that is unfortunate. He has no really fast normals to speak of (DS on average probably has faster moves) so when he wants to commit he commits big to something that will lose to jumps, and then in that case he has to rely on dashing in, which is a weakness in this game. As DS I am content to let him try and walk back and forth, he will do LC or B2 or he has to walk in range of his overhead which also loses to jumps. CW has the same problem, but she also doesn't have a LC to at least alleviate it. Punishing guns is nice but you having to move in at all is a weakness, not a critical one, but a weakness nonetheless. When you get to a range and the only surprise will be dash in that kinda stinks.

IMakeItL00kC00L said:

Im saying that mu is 5-5 BASED ON WHAT THE COMMUNITY THINKS AND WHAT THE COMMUNITY HAS SAID IN REGARDS TO THIS PARTICULAR MATCHUP. I find it interesting that "competent" players describe the matchup as 9-1 when bane is kept out, and 9-1 when bane gets in. But fine, whatever, continue downplaying.

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I hope you realize you're going full retard and all caps on something you're completely full of shit about.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/hitbox-zod-mu-chart-khaotic-armor.45886/

That's the latest matchup chart and you don't have to read much further than page 1 to see top Zod's agreeing its probably 6-4 his favor against Bane. It's like I went back in time to argue with someone when Max was almost winning KIT with Bane. Evolve, bro. And don't get so salty over opinions on the Internet.

Rally Jackson said:

I hope you realize you're going full retard and all caps on something you're completely full of shit about.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/hitbox-zod-mu-chart-khaotic-armor.45886/

That's the latest matchup chart and you don't have to read much further than page 1 to see top Zod's agreeing its probably 6-4 his favor against Bane. It's like I went back in time to argue with someone when Max was almost winning KIT with Bane. Evolve, bro. And don't get so salty over opinions on the Internet.

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He clearly states that it's debatable, but if we're gonna go that route then @AK Pig Of The Hut what do you guys say the bane-zod matchup is? And @[USER=6973]Relaxedstate was the only zod to say sonething about the mu first page other than OP so idk where the plural is coming from[/USER]

IMakeItL00kC00L said:

He clearly states that it's debatable, but if we're gonna go that route then @AK Pig Of The Hutwhat do you guys say the bane-zod matchup is? And @[USER=6973]Relaxedstate was the only zod to say sonething about the mu other than OP so idk where the plural is coming from[/USER]

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Pig said he stood by that chart's numbers too so that's where. This is getting super tired though. You're completely right. As soon as Bane knocks you down just go right to rematch; there's absolutely nothing you can do to defend against his oki. It's like earthshake online just worse.

Youphemism said:

You actually live within America though, I don't. Still doesn't give people the right to call us jobbers. That should be based on the players skill, not whether they have means of travelling.

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It's a fruitless argument, the best player in the world could live in somewhere like Thailand for all we know, but that wont mean shit unless they play in America.

I done told you all when people master IAZB's they will make some MU's 9-1/10-0.

I told you damnit. Well I complained about it once at Tony's.


Anyway, I'll chime in on Bane-Zod.

When Zod is knocked down he is worse off than catwoman because his mbb3 or mbf3 can't activate in the oki gaps fast enough. He has a parry, so bane can't do d2xxspecial but d1xxspecial is pretty much the same.

Now this whole "hitbox-zod" and "IAZB's as low as waist level" I am pretty sure Bane can only get in with...

• Level 3 charge.. takes 2 seconds and 1 second is in start-up (bane will have 4 seconds to do some damage before debuff and taking hella chip). No Zod is dumb enough to get hit by that, but it could be a good tool to keep them on edge.
• Using level 1 and maybe 2 to double punch through zod balls, hopefully getting close enough to get to at least use level 2 and 3 for damage. (@Youphemism 's idea)

Anyways this is just theory. The options seem shitty right now. People can call the MU whatever they want until its really played.

IMakeItL00kC00L said:

He clearly states that it's debatable, but if we're gonna go that route then @AK Pig Of The Hut @Relaxedstate what do you guys say the bane-zod matchup is?

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Rally Jackson said:

Pig said he stood by that chart's numbers too so that's where. This is getting super tired though. You're completely right. As soon as Bane knocks you down just go right to rematch; there's absolutely nothing you can do to defend against his oki. It's like earthshake online just worse.

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You act like you have no options "but he has a parry" "put he might block my oki game" let me ask you a legitimate question and im sure you have but i want to make sure, have you labbed all the ways for zod gives you trouble off of things like pushblock, guessing right etc to find ways around them?

GGA Max said:

I done told you all when people master IAZB's they will make some MU's 9-1/10-0.

I told you damnit. Well I complained about it once at Tony's.


Anyway, I'll chime in on Bane-Zod.

When Zod is knocked down he is worse off than catwoman because his mbb3 or mbf3 can't activate in the oki gaps fast enough. He has a parry, so bane can't do d2xxspecial but d1xxspecial is pretty much the same.

Now this whole "hitbox-zod" and "IAZB's as low as waist level" I am pretty sure Bane can only get in with...

• Level 3 charge.. takes 2 seconds and 1 second is in start-up (bane will have 4 seconds to do some damage before debuff and taking hella chip). No Zod is dumb enough to get hit by that, but it could be a good tool to keep them on edge.
• Using level 1 and maybe 2 to double punch through zod balls, hopefully getting close enough to get to at least use level 2 and 3 for damage. (@Youphemism 's idea)

Anyways this is just theory. The options seem shitty right now. People can call the MU whatever they want until its really played.

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Thank you, Max. I'll leave it at what you said. I still don't think anyone is properly pushblocking any of Bane's oki options like they should be though. Creating space is all certain characters need to do. The reason Catwoman is so hopeless is because she can't do anything with that space even if she gets it. I respect you chiming in, bro!

Injustice being dead is a bill
Games don't die when people on forums who don't travel say it's dead, game's dead when people stop traveling...
MK9 had 40+ people at Summer Jam and IGAU had the 3rd highest Entrants at WCW.

Captain Oxygen said:

Injustice being dead is a bill
Games don't die when people on forums who don't travel say it's dead, game's dead when people stop traveling...
MK9 had 40+ people at Summer Jam and IGAU had the 3rd highest Entrants at WCW.

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WCW was the lowest attended tournament I've traveled to this year...but also one of the best, with the most fun and toughest matches.

GGA 16 Bit said:

He is the Evolution Champion for christ sake. Truth hasn't played Batgirl in months and never grinded out matchups when he did. Why the fuck would anyone listen to his Batgirl match up numbers? All voices aren't created equal.

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Ouch.

KingHippo said:

Crathen has already done extensive work on stuffing all of Flash's wakeups, I'll let him take it from there, but suffice to say he takes care of it. Flash's neutral is whack BECAUSE he must approach, and that is unfortunate. He has no really fast normals to speak of (DS on average probably has faster moves) so when he wants to commit he commits big to something that will lose to jumps, and then in that case he has to rely on dashing in, which is a weakness in this game. As DS I am content to let him try and walk back and forth, he will do LC or B2 or he has to walk in range of his overhead which also loses to jumps. CW has the same problem, but she also doesn't have a LC to at least alleviate it. Punishing guns is nice but you having to move in at all is a weakness, not a critical one, but a weakness nonetheless. When you get to a range and the only surprise will be dash in that kinda stinks.

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yeah but what if i have the life lead? do i still have to approach? thats the thing flash forces most zoners to approach him with a life lead. i think flash wins that aspect, DS approaching flash is a losing situation. we are used to that crackheaded flash playstyle, the scariest flash is the one willing to make you hang yourself.

Laos_boy said:

Your right. I guess the only bane that uses CMD grab is max

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Yea no other Bane is obsessed with CMD grabs or anything

GGA 16 Bit said:

I don't know what "learn to pushblock" even means. It's very possible to take someone's entire lifebar before they'd ever have a chance to push block.

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Heaven forbid that you do get the chance to, and your pushblock gets stuffed by armor.

Sajam said:

I said a while ago that NW was a character who needed somebody who was playing the game actively and good to make him work.

He can make top 8 given the right bracket and a ton of work but one or both of those things have been missing for a while now. I feel like most Injustice characters fall into this bracket though.

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There's still hope. KIT will be apart of history. Just wait

Rally Jackson said:

Thank you, Max. I'll leave it at what you said. I still don't think anyone is properly pushblocking any of Bane's oki options like they should be though. Creating space is all certain characters need to do. The reason Catwoman is so hopeless is because she can't do anything with that space even if she gets it. I respect you chiming in, bro!

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You know if bane does a normal and cancels into any special move while trait is active it's a big FU to pushblocking right...? He just armors through it. Why should people waste meter pushblocking to achive absolutely nothing?

Also despite the blow up, I agree with Bit that the only opinion that REALLY matters is the one from the person with the most results. People are entitled to their opinions, but people are also entitled to not give a fuck about those opinions.

KingHippo said:

Just right there you exposed the flaw when people talk the match. No one is grinding it beyond "Well, I mean I can punish guns". No one is talking Flash's neutral weaknesses or the minutia of Deathstroke's oki on Flash's just okay wakeups. Until we get past meta 1 I will not accept auto loss because of LGS punish.

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THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU! Yes loss of Low Gun Shots at SOME ranges with NO MB sucks but DS is more than just LGS

I think Scorpion is actually worse than people think. He might be the worst character in the game.

GGA 16 Bit said:

I think Scorpion is actually worse than people think. He might be the worst character in the game.

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I thought that was already agreed?

RM Truth said:

Also despite the blow up, I agree with Bit that the only opinion that REALLY matters is the one from the person with the most results. People are entitled to their opinions, but people are also entitled to not give a fuck about those opinions.

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Then why do I get blown up trying to talk about what ares can do in match ups? From these so called top players?

Mr Aquaman said:

Then why do I get blown up trying to talk about what ares can do in match ups? From these so called top players?

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Because alucard

Bane's d1 can't be pushblocked from certain ranges. It's funny how he ignores things sometimes.

Bane not being top 5. He's top 5. No way he isn't. He is 4th or 5th. Fuck the downplayers.
Bane loses to Superman. Bunch of garbage. Bane plays footsies deals with zoning just fine and murders him on knockdown. 5-5.
Bane losing to MMH. Wrong. Not as many people think this but some do. We can armor through all orb cancels punish martian grab and f12 does not actually punish double punch on block. 5-5
Bane not beating Aquaman. Footsies game is even or in our favor, he's destroyed on knockdown, trait isn't an issue with grab.
Bane CW not being that horrible and only 6-4. If you think this you are dumb or ignorant to how bad it is. The fact that I have beaten Bit in tournament is almost entirely due to the fact it's a 7-3. He's far smarter and has more experience with fighting games. If I pick up a character that goes 5-5 with her I'll get raped 95% of the time. Bane demolishes CW harder than almost any other character. Maybe Joker is worse off, but not by much.
21 being the deciding factor of the Bane Flash mu. Yeah sure that string is great but look at the range vs d2 and d1. Nope.
Bane not beating Harley. If I consistently beat every Harley I play except for Saltface because I've yet to play his Harley, I will wait to be convinced. I see it 6-4 Bane's favor.
Bane does not lose to Sinestro
Bane beats Deathstroke 6-4. This is fact.
Bane definitely beats Lobo 7-3.
Online tactics are a bill offline. Bullshit they are. They're a bill once I get punished. While I was frequenting GBS I didn't see Venom Uppercut MB punishes consistently. Punish me or hold that otherwise don't talk.
Tick throws being reactable. Nope.
GL doing well vs Bane potentially 6-4 GL favor. Yeah that's a crock. "Durr he has minigun" same shit as "durr trait and lasers" you're wrong. Bane blows everything after a b1 up for free with armor, wins footsie game because of armor, minigun is a bill and only keeps him out temporarily, and GL has no chance getting up. He's worse off than CW in that regard.
DD Bane being even. Bane gives DD hell. When DD's best tool, his MB Venom guessing game, is actually in Bane's favor? Yeah don't tell me that shit is even, it isn't.
KF Bane being 5-5. Bane wins the mu. She isn't getting up and her zoning isn't impossible to deal with.

Alright I think I'm done now. Yall downplay the fuck out of Bane.

Mr Aquaman said:

Then why do I get blown up trying to talk about what ares can do in match ups? From these so called top players?

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Once again....

GET EMMMMMMMM!!!