Question Do You Honestly Think Nightwing Is Underrated?

Why use or even play Nightwing when high tier characters Aquaman, Flash and Wonder Woman do it so much better than he does?

HeroesNZ said:

Please. When you do it you're stating facts, when we do it we're downplaying

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You make him sound like he has no options though and that his plus frames are irrelevant, that's different

RTM2004 said:

Why use or even play Nightwing when high tier characters Aquaman, Flash and Wonder Woman do it so much better than he does?

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Why play Catwoman or Shazam? Why play anyone but MMH or Aquaman?

I am super conflicted about Nighwing. I feel he under performs and could be placing top 8 at least sometimes. So I want to be critcal. On the other hand nothing is worse than being told matchups you work hard on and still struggle badly in are fine and you're just downplaying.

GGA 16 Bit said:

I feel he under performs and could be placing top 8 at least sometimes.

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I guess Lord of the Fly is just the best Nightwing...

RTM2004 said:

Why use or even play Nightwing when high tier characters Aquaman, Flash and Wonder Woman do it so much better than he does?

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After I picked up Aquaman I literally didn't feel the need to play any character again, but this is besides the point, lol.

Youphemism said:

And I've cleared this up several times, and for some reason you continue to hold that to me even though I cleared it up, but I meant it can be fuzzied not reacted. I didn't realise that's what fuzzying was at the time.

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You told me you were gonna post a video of you correctly blocking her vortex consistently... Like a week ago

Youphemism said:

You make him sound like he has no options though and that his plus frames are irrelevant, that's different

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You make Batgirl sound like she has a bad neutral and that her cartwheel is irrelevant...

Youphemism said:

Hahaha I didn't say that, as per usual being paraphrased instead of quoted

It's downplaying when there is an option and you say two opposing things.

Yeah but that's my point, you guys said block high all the time but then went to say duck moves like that. Don't say one thing then say something different lol

And I've cleared this up several times, and for some reason you continue to hold that to me even though I cleared it up, but I meant it can be fuzzied not reacted. I didn't realise that's what fuzzying was at the time.

Also you lost to a Cyborg with Martian. Your opinion is invalid.

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When I say " no options" I don't literally mean NW just sits there. No options in escrima=no real mixup potential.

You can block high all the time. If you don't duck it or backdash, NW is +20 and all you have to do then...is still block high.

It's not downplaying.

Shaazzyam said:

When I say " no options" I don't literally mean NW just sits there. No options in escrima=no real mixup potential.

You can block high all the time. If you don't duck it or backdash, NW is +20 and all you have to do then...is still block high.

It's not downplaying.

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This is what irritates me about injustice players. Just because you don't have EZPZ 50/50's everywhere does not make a character bad. +20 means you get to play footsies and try to make them flinch.
What about characters like Aquaman, Superman, Black Adam, etc. that don't have 50/50's?? They are bad too huh? they have no mixup potential?

GGA 16 Bit said:

I am super conflicted about Nighwing. I feel he under performs and could be placing top 8 at least sometimes. So I want to be critcal. On the other hand nothing is worse than being told matchups you work hard on and still struggle badly in are fine and you're just downplaying.

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At this point in the game's life though, you should be good enough to beat your bad MUs if people don't know them/have a counter pick ready. If a NW player took the game seriously/had the right secondary then they could 100% make top 8. So it's either players lacking talent, motivation, or both.

I haven't taken the game seriously since about a month before SCR and even since then I haven't seen a NW player who works hard enough or is good enough to do well at a tournament to get top 8. Maybe in the next tournament season when the numbers drop a bit and players stop playing somebody will be good enough to do it but honestly by then nobody will care.

Oh, and I have NW in a pretty similar spot to where you do. I really think he's good, but good really isn't anything special in Injustice. There aren't any bad characters in Injustice, but there are lots of really really good ones.

JDM said:

I could have been rude and named players but I didn't.

So, if it doesn't matter if I made top 8 or not, why would you bring up success in the first place in this matter? Keep making yourself look dumb, bro. You talked shit to someone and had to backpedal to save face.

Nightwing players for the most part aren't very good in my opinion. Compare the best nightwing(s) to the best Aquaman player(s), the best Superman Player(s), etc. etc. and you'll see there's a pretty big skill gap. If you can't see that I'm sorry but it's true.

And when I said underrated, I meant by TYM forums. Look at the Nightwing forums and tell me it isn't terrible. They say their character is bottom 3-5. Come on now. Nightwing is a lot better than they want to give him credit for.

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I was wrong about you not accomplishing anything in injustice because quite frankly, I didn't know, never heard anything regarding you. But my point was that you bashed all nightwing mains and said they all suck. That's pretty uncalled for and not true.

I do agree that nightwing is a bit downplayed by his community, he's nowhere near the bottom of the roster.

JDM said:

They say their character is bottom 3-5.

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lol wut? The general consensus is that he's a solid mid-tier character, I'm pretty sure you were being trolled.

JDM said:

This is what irritates me about injustice players. Just because you don't have EZPZ 50/50's everywhere does not make a character bad. +20 means you get to play footsies and try to make them flinch.
What about characters like Aquaman, Superman, Black Adam, etc. that don't have 50/50's?? They are bad too huh? they have no mixup potential?

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Ok, that's fine. Nobody said you couldn't play footsies. Secondly, I didn't say NW was bad. He's mid-tier.

And are you really about to compare NW's tools to AM, Supes, and BA?

This sort of makes me want to play injustice again

BigMilk said:

A character's balance isn't defined by MUs or whether or not he can implement his gameplan. The character's tools are what determine whether they are balanced or not. Im familiar with the characters tools because I played him since day 1, but whether he can zone or not in a specific MU it doesn't change his balance. Just means he has to implement different strategies for different MUs and situations

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A character's balance is defined by his ability to deal with various situations. For example: a balanced character will have options to deal with XYZ. The higher the tier, the more options available. NW does not have what it takes to deal with "zoning" according to the NW community. Thus, NW is not balanced.

Shaazzyam said:

Ok, that's fine. Nobody said you couldn't play footsies. Secondly, I didn't say NW was bad. He's mid-tier.

And are you really about to compare NW's tools to AM, Supes, and BA?

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I never said you said he was bad, I simply said a lot of injustice players think like that.

And yes up close I am going to compare them, because none of them have fast 50/50's, so they have no mixup potential right??

Chuckychuck said:

A character's balance is defined by his ability to deal with various situations. For example: a balanced character will have options to deal with XYZ. The higher the tier, the more options available. NW does not have what it takes to deal with "zoning" according to the NW community. Thus, NW is not balanced.

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You are partially right. But I would say that what you are staying determines tier and not balance. if what you say is true then NW's balance changes in every MU. Balance is a constant, it doesn't change regardless of who is on the other side of the screen. for example, If you have the AA in the game but the other person never jumps on you, does that make your AA worse, or just less useful against that individual. Also, imo his zoning isn't even what makes him a good character. I think it's his unpredictability and space control, although his zoning is mainly used for that so I could see the correlation.

BigMilk said:

You are partially right. But I would say that what you are staying determines tier and not balance. if what you say is true then NW's balance changes in every MU. Balance is a constant, it doesn't change regardless of who is on the other side of the screen. for example, If you have the AA in the game but the other person never jumps on you, does that make your AA worse, or just less useful against that individual. Also, imo his zoning isn't even what makes him a good character. I think it's his unpredictability and space control, although his zoning is mainly used for that so I could see the correlation.

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The NW community concluded NW struggles vs zoning characters and looses vs them otherwise it is a 5-5. So according to the NW community "zoners" across the board give NW trouble. This means his imbalance is constant across several tiers and is not restricted to a single tier like the top tier. His imbalance is directly related to zoning in general.

One of NW's problems is obtaining the life lead when he is at a life deficit and avoiding interactables. Using your logic NW is balanced if my opponent does not play keep away when they have the life lead or throw interactables.

We see things differently.

JDM said:

After I picked up Aquaman I literally didn't feel the need to play any character again, but this is besides the point, lol.

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And then you fight NW as Aquaman ohhhh snap and find out you can't FTD worth shit and he out-ranges you. Whaaaattt Nightwing? Trident Rush that ass.... M-M-M-M-M-M-Meter Burn St-St-St-Staff SpinnnNNN.

Chuckychuck said:

And then you fight NW as Aquaman ohhhh snap and find out you can't FTD worth shit and he out-ranges you. Whaaaattt Nightwing? Trident Rush that ass.... M-M-M-M-M-M-Meter Burn St-St-St-Staff SpinnnNNN.

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Lol what Aquaman does fine against NW. What month of Injustice are you still living in?

Sajam said:

Lol what Aquaman does fine against NW. What month of Injustice are you still living in?

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Still bitter about NW eh lol

HeroesNZ said:

You told me you were gonna post a video of you correctly blocking her vortex consistently... Like a week ago

You make Batgirl sound like she has a bad neutral and that her cartwheel is irrelevant...

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A. FUZZYING it, I don't know why that sounds impossible to you anyway considering you have to move your blocking in 3 frames for Doomsdays earth shake, you're just moving your blocks in one frame for BGs vortex. It's very difficult but not impossible...
B. Before you say it no I'm not 'ducking you' or whatever, I said I'd post a video when I could, not on the day a week ago. I have tech I want to video and post too but I can't so I haven't.
C. She struggles more than Nightwing in neutral...and I've never said cartwheel is irrelevant I've said all the options are punishable. That's not the same as NWs options after plus frames being 'irrelevant'.

Shaazzyam said:

When I say " no options" I don't literally mean NW just sits there. No options in escrima=no real mixup potential.

You can block high all the time. If you don't duck it or backdash, NW is +20 and all you have to do then...is still block high.

It's not downplaying.

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'No options in Escrima' haha, so he does have options? Just not in escrima stance? That's where people get confused and think you're downplaying, because you said he has "no options" where it seems he does.
Most of the time every NW I've played tends to sit in staff anyway which is where more of his plus frames moves come in. Your followup doesn't HAVE to involve a mixup, you can just do another blockstring into staff/more plus frames/potentially a mixup if that's what you want or a throw. Soooo... no options eh?

Ok but that doesn't mean you have no options. Even chip is still damage. If people are just supposed to 'block high' against him to win then why/how do Nightwings manage to open people up? He must not be that predictable... Or are people just randomly not blocking? Can he not open the opponent up? Does he have no options?
Or do NWs just suck and LOTF is the best?

Uh huh... "no options" isn't downplaying, especially when blockstrings that leave you plus count as an option

JDM said:

I never said you said he was bad, I simply said a lot of injustice players think like that.

And yes up close I am going to compare them, because none of them have fast 50/50's, so they have no mixup potential right??

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Well, don't put the whole NW community on blast. Bottom line is:

If you're not willing to pickup the character yourself, prob play any of his many bad MUs in tourney to make it to top 8, then don't tell NW mains they suck. Please show us how to outfootsie Zod, Superman, BA, Cyborg, HG, Sinestro, GL, WoWo, Killer Frost, Zatanna, Raven and interactables. The character is decent, but that doesn't get you very far in this game.

AM has trident rush, ftd and gdlk normals. Supes has one of the best normals, good zoning, great moblity, corner control in the game, idk anything about BA. To compare them to NW is just silly anyway.

Shaazzyam said:

Well, don't put the whole NW community on blast. Bottom line is:

If you're not willing to pickup the character yourself, prob play any of his many bad MUs in tourney to make it to top 8, then don't tell NW mains they suck. Please show us how to outfootsie Zod, Superman, BA, Cyborg, HG, Sinestro, GL, WoWo, Killer Frost, Zatanna, Raven and interactables. The character is decent, but that doesn't get you very far in this game.

AM has trident rush, ftd and gdlk normals. Supes has one of the best normals, good zoning, great moblity, corner control in the game, idk anything about BA. To compare them to NW is just silly anyway.

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Actually I view NW as a shitty Superman and shitty Aquaman variants. They are Escrima and Staff respectively. If you like Escrima, play Supes. If you like Staff, play Aquamang

Wasn't there supposed to be a cyborg tutorial released today showing how he goes even with aqua lad?