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Match-up Discussion Lobo Matchup Discussion 2014

Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Yoaksssss said:
I was actually thinking about this earlier! Generally when I play the meter game I play it conservatively. But I'm gonna start using more meter within combo's. I've also been messing around with Bounce Canceling after standing 3. As far as I know it's only good when your opponent is on the ground, so I'm gonna mess around with this.
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Yeah. 3~mb b3 is our best whiff punisher, imo and is unclashable if you go into another b3/f3 afterwards. If you don't have 2 bars, 3~mb pump shot is like 34% with both traits and is still unclashable, or you can simply 3~hook charge meterless for a knockdown. Basically, 3~special is the key and which special you use is situational. Some characters, like doomsday... I'll 3~space hook which pushes him pretty much full screen away.

Also, against doomsday/bane and probably a bunch of other characters, after hook charge you can walk forward slightly then 3~special to blow up wakeups unless they are completely invincible although you just have to do it pre-emptively and it's kind of tricky as how far forward you need to walk before inputting 3~special is character dependent.
 
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Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Chaosphere said:
Yeah. 3~mb b3 is our best whiff punisher, imo and is unclashable if you go into another b3/f3 afterwards. If you don't have 2 bars, 3~mb pump shot is like 34% with both traits and is still unclashable, or you can simply 3~hook charge meterless for a knockdown. Basically, 3~special is the key and which special you use is situational. Some characters, like doomsday... I'll 3~space hook which pushes him pretty much full screen away.

Also, against doomsday/bane and probably a bunch of other characters, after hook charge you can walk forward slightly then 3~special to blow up wakeups unless they are completely invincible although you just have to do it pre-emptively and it's kind of tricky as how far forward you need to walk before inputting 3~special is character dependent.
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That sounds interesting. About walking forward on Bane's/DD's wakeup. Gonna look in to that when I can.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Yoaksssss said:
That sounds interesting. About walking forward on Bane's/DD's wakeup. Gonna look in to that when I can.
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Yeah, use Lobo's feet for visual cues. For bane, i think its once his back foot lines up with his front foot after hook charge is when you want to do it if I remember correctly.

For doomsday its when his back foot goes slightly ahead of his front foot. You'll see.
 
SonicBoomBrad

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Chaosphere said:
How do you guys play your meter game? Do you play conservatively? What's your clash philosophy?

I find myself always saving my meter for big combos and mb pump shot.
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Generally whenever I get a bar I like to bashdash, load a trait shell, and MB pump shot. I feel like that's the most effective way to use meter with lobo since his combos do so much damage.

But most of the time when I load trait I get hit for some reason. I think it's a bug.
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
Chaosphere said:
How do you guys play your meter game? Do you play conservatively? What's your clash philosophy?
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I'm not really sure if this more suited in the general discussion thread, but I'll answer this since everyone else has.

I try to stay conservative whenever I play this character because he's highly unsafe without a bar or a trait shell. Hook Charge, as a wake-up and mix-up option, can get you killed if you don't meter burn it, same with low hook and to some extent low shot. Dumping all my meter to get a first round kill sounds like a really bad idea to me, though I guess I just don't like the idea of being meterless at any point with Lobo, since outside of combos/taking damage, he has no way to build meter. Though I guess since you have a health bar lead, you can afford to make a mistake by doing an unsafe mix-up option and it gets blocked or loading a trait shell in a distance where you can be easily punished. As for clashing, unless I'm in desperate need in health or I have the lead, I always bet 1-2 bars so I can get a portion of health back and not spend all my meter instantly. That way I have a better chance of coming back/getting back in and mix-ing the opponent up, since I can stay safe with meter or a trait shot if I'm able to load them after clash.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Cage Redfield said:
I'm not really sure if this more suited in the general discussion thread, but I'll answer this since everyone else has.

I try to stay conservative whenever I play this character because he's highly unsafe without a bar or a trait shell. Hook Charge, as a wake-up and mix-up option, can get you killed if you don't meter burn it, same with low hook and to some extent low shot. Dumping all my meter to get a first round kill sounds like a really bad idea to me, though I guess I just don't like the idea of being meterless at any point with Lobo, since outside of combos/taking damage, he has no way to build meter. Though I guess since you have a health bar lead, you can afford to make a mistake by doing an unsafe mix-up option and it gets blocked or loading a trait shell in a distance where you can be easily punished. As for clashing, unless I'm in desperate need in health or I have the lead, I always bet 1-2 bars so I can get a portion of health back and not spend all my meter instantly. That way I have a better chance of coming back/getting back in and mix-ing the opponent up, since I can stay safe with meter or a trait shot if I'm able to load them after clash.
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Yeah I'll usually bet meter if I'm below half health. But sometimes I won't and I'll risk it for the big dammy. But it can backfire too. Ehhhh. There is no solid "safe" strategy with Lobo it seems other than playing hella turtle, but then you're not taking advantage of Lobo's aggressiveness which can reallllly blow people up.

And yeah I should have posted it in general discussion.
 
Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
SonicBoomBrad said:
Generally whenever I get a bar I like to bashdash, load a trait shell, and MB pump shot. I feel like that's the most effective way to use meter with lobo since his combos do so much damage.

But most of the time when I load trait I get hit for some reason. I think it's a bug.
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I need too start throwing out MB Shots when trait just too show the opponent I willing too do it. Usually I hold on too it for the combo's. Like you said, he does really good damage.
 
EGP Wonder_Chef

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Yoaksssss said:
What is are options against Grundy? I just finished a lengthy set with @Billy Dha Kid and I have no idea what to do!! lol

@Captain Oxygen @Decay II @Cage Redfield @Chaosphere @GGA Fill Pops @JustPressingButtons @EGP Wonder_Chef @Mikemetroid @RDK|Tyrant
@juicepouch @JTB123 @any other Grundy mains?
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Did I get tagged as a Lobo player or a Grundy player. I'm right in the middle so I just have to know.



That matchup is really hard. I think F2 is throw immune, but he has very little else. It's also pretty easy for Grundy to punish Lobo's stuff by WCCing through it. Lobo's animations are pretty long and vulnerable to that.

I've considered trying to instant face dive at the end of a Walking Corpse to be throw immune, but if they armor through it Grundy has a year and a half to punish.

Raw Trait load is pretty safe from far away unless he has meter, but if he has meter watch out for MB Swamp Hands to punish it.



I really don't have any good advice. As much of a "supposed" Grundy upplayer as I am, I think that might be Lobo's worst matchup, or one of his worst.
 
Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
EGP Wonder_Chef said:
Did I get tagged as a Lobo player or a Grundy player. I'm right in the middle so I just have to know.



That matchup is really hard. I think F2 is throw immune, but he has very little else. It's also pretty easy for Grundy to punish Lobo's stuff by WCCing through it. Lobo's animations are pretty long and vulnerable to that.

I've considered trying to instant face dive at the end of a Walking Corpse to be throw immune, but if they armor through it Grundy has a year and a half to punish.

Raw Trait load is pretty safe from far away unless he has meter, but if he has meter watch out for MB Swamp Hands to punish it.



I really don't have any good advice. As much of a "supposed" Grundy upplayer as I am, I think that might be Lobo's worst matchup, or one of his worst.
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Everthing you said I agree with! b12 and b2u1 can get interrupted by Grundy if he cancels WC. Oki on this charcter is super difficult unless your Bane!
And I tagged you cause I know you've played Lobo and that you have played the best Grundy there is! Also Pump shots just seem useless in this mu cause of the armor on SH and WC. Tac on Grundy's Damage Resist trait and it makes it even harder to comeback on this character cause now Lobo's damage is dumbed down.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Yoaksssss said:
What is are options against Grundy? I just finished a lengthy set with @Billy Dha Kid and I have no idea what to do!! lol

@Captain Oxygen @Decay II @Cage Redfield @Chaosphere @GGA Fill Pops @JustPressingButtons @EGP Wonder_Chef @Mikemetroid @RDK|Tyrant
@juicepouch @JTB123 @any other Grundy mains?
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http://testyourmight.com/threads/brad-and-cages-lobo-safe-jump-guide.41744/

On knockdown, I do what this thread suggests. I dash up and b1~hook charge. Then I mash mb when I see it's a walking corpse. Grundy can technically counter this though. But this at least gives you a leg up on the knockdown game at first. Playing against a good grundy is tough. I do a lot of mb b3 in the neutral game to go through walking corpse or any of his other normals/specials. I haven't found a successful formula against grundy yet. I also barely ever play against good grundys.
 
Decay

Decay

King of the Bill
Yoaksssss said:
I need too start throwing out MB Shots when trait just too show the opponent I willing too do it. Usually I hold on too it for the combo's. Like you said, he does really good damage.
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Try this, i found out that back 2 up 1 is grab immune. So when you see him doing walking corpse, react to it and do back 2 up 1. If he lets the walking corpse rip, then the string makes his grab wiff and you get full combo, if he decides to cancel the walking corpse and block the back2 up1, then it puts you back in the pressuring situation. At that point you can go for a tick throw set up or just whatever you want to follow it with.

Also, look for grundy's tick throw set ups and back 3 between the block and the throw. So if you see him do a down 2, you pretty much know you should look out for his throw right after the blocked 2. Another thing to do against walking corpse cancel happy Grundys is just go for the command throw right when the walking corpse animation is canceled, so you have to input it a little before he cancels so that the active frames grabs him as soon as he's blocking. It's ballsy but a lot of Grundys cancel out anyway. It's a shit matchup I know, but hopefully these tips can help you.

Put grundy on wakeup Walking Corpse in the lab and try that back 2 up 1 tech I'm telling you about
 
Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Decay II said:
Try this, i found out that back 2 up 1 is grab immune. So when you see him doing walking corpse, react to it and do back 2 up 1. If he lets the walking corpse rip, then the string makes his grab wiff and you get full combo, if he decides to cancel the walking corpse and block the back2 up1, then it puts you back in the pressuring situation. At that point you can go for a tick throw set up or just whatever you want to follow it with.

Also, look for grundy's tick throw set ups and back 3 between the block and the throw. So if you see him do a down 2, you pretty much know you should look out for his throw right after the blocked 2. Another thing to do against walking corpse cancel happy Grundys is just go for the command throw right when the walking corpse animation is canceled, so you have to input it a little before he cancels so that the active frames grabs him as soon as he's blocking. It's ballsy but a lot of Grundys cancel out anyway. It's a shit matchup I know, but hopefully these tips can help you.

Put grundy on wakeup Walking Corpse in the lab and try that back 2 up 1 tech I'm telling you about
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I'll try the cmd grab when he goes for the WCC. I already knew that b2u1 is throw immune. The timing is weird tho too. Add the fact that Grundy could cancel the WC and interrupt in-between the string.
 
Decay

Decay

King of the Bill
Yoaksssss said:
I'll try the cmd grab when he goes for the WCC. I already knew that b2u1 is throw immune. The timing is weird tho too. Add the fact that Grundy could cancel the WC and interrupt in-between the string.
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He can't interrupt if you do the b2u1 as soon as he starts walking. I had to play against @Mikemetroid at the break last week and although he beat me, it was 2-1 and one of the matches I lost was very close. I use the tech on him and it worked pretty well
 
Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Decay II said:
He can't interrupt if you do the b2u1 as soon as he starts walking. I had to play against @Mikemetroid at the break last week and although he beat me, it was 2-1 and one of the matches I lost was very close. I use the tech on him and it worked pretty well
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Oh okay I'll try that out than!
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
B2u1 is throw immune in the very beginning of the animation, so using it to combat walking corpses to get in from a distance is horrible. B12 is also very awkward timing with its throw immunity. I used to play this matchup with @Blind_Ducky a lot and this is a terrible mu. You know it's shit tier when someone who doesn't main Grundy can beat someone who mains Lobo (or I suck, but hey, it's definitely one of those things). I don't have much advice to give either, other than try your damndest to outplay the dude and try the tech chaosphere posted in here.
 
Decay

Decay

King of the Bill
Cage Redfield said:
B2u1 is throw immune in the very beginning of the animation, so using it to combat walking corpses to get in from a distance is horrible. B12 is also very awkward timing with its throw immunity. I used to play this matchup with @Blind_Ducky a lot and this is a terrible mu. You know it's shit tier when someone who doesn't main Grundy can beat someone who mains Lobo (or I suck, but hey, it's definitely one of those things). I don't have much advice to give either, other than try your damndest to outplay the dude and try the tech chaosphere posted in here.
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Back 2 up 1 is grab immune on both the startup of the animation and the end meaning that you can do on reaction to the WC or you can do it preemptively ofif you think he's going to wake up with it, you can start doing the string when he's about to wake up
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
Decay II said:
Back 2 up 1 is grab immune on both the startup of the animation and the end meaning that you can do on reaction to the WC or you can do it preemptively ofif you think he's going to wake up with it, you can start doing the string when he's about to wake up
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Hence why I said that it's a pain to try this in the neutral game, where it matters most. Grundy has all sorts of wakeups that are stupid like EX cleaver or EX trait throw, walking corpse on wakeup is already dealt with by doing the b1 xx ex hook charge thing. If you wanna try hitting him with a meaty B2 to deal with walking corpse on wakeup and get put in the vortex he has instead/allow grundy to hit you with a baby combo that ends up upping his damage output/lowering yours/making trait shots even more irrelevant, be my guest.
 
EGP Wonder_Chef

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Decay II said:
He can't interrupt if you do the b2u1 as soon as he starts walking. I had to play against @Mikemetroid at the break last week and although he beat me, it was 2-1 and one of the matches I lost was very close. I use the tech on him and it worked pretty well
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If he does WCC > WCC it beats that though. Pretty sure WCC > MB Trait does too.
 
JustPressingButtons

JustPressingButtons

Clown
You cats, let's talk about Lobo vs MMH.

I personally see this MU as a 5-5. Lobo can fight MMH quite well in neutral. He has the options of trait pump shots, and MB hook charge to work his way in from mid range. Post overhead teleport options are actually very good with the standing 3 50/50, MB Pump Shot, and Dash 113 punish. Lobo also does a great job of applying oki to the Martian with safe jumps and the usual 33/33/33. Martian can play Keepaway well and dominates the interactables game. Basically, make good reads, and keep nukes up, and you can do fine.

@Yoaksssss @Captain Oxygen @Cage Redfield @Decay II @GGA Fill Pops
 
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