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Most uneven match up?

Which is most like watching Seahawks vs Broncos in the Superbowl?

  • Hawkgirl vs Grundy

    Votes: 18 28.6%

  • MMH vs Cyborg

    Votes: 45 71.4%
  • Total voters
    63
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Scoot Magee said:
I never played ducky before but I've play ray riazy a lot offline and glass sword online. I can say anyone with good blocking can give arrow a hard time but he does have a lot of ways to make his mix ups ambiguous. Mb slide is a tool people need to use more during the f2d13 string. The great thing about mb slide is it gives arrow another true 50/50 and pushes to the corner. If you have electric arrow equipped you can do f2d13 arrow dash 111 slide or f2d1 mb slide. Both push to the corner. Also f2d1 low ice arrow and f2d1 overhead ice arrow is a true 50/50. It should really help you open up anyone even with the best defense.

Also thanks for the props! Thread officially derailed? Lol
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Yeah, I like the ideas you mentioned (especially using slide more), but one of the reasons I dropped arrow and now main batman is that I'm pretty much convinced that you can react to any mixup off of F2. When I play The_SNKE or Blind Ducky, I swear to you, they block whatever mixup I throw at them. It made me realize that once a high level player gets enough experience against Arrow, he can be blocked for days with pretty much no way for you to open your opponant up. Now, specific to Raven, she dominates Arrow full screen. Blocked pillar = either another blocked pillar or a blocked soul crush (in which case you can dash in afterwards). Dashing after a blocked pillar is guessing that she will not do a soul crush, which would punish your dash in attempt and put you full screen again. Thats the guessing game. She will build about a bar to a bar and a half doing this. You CANNOT trait up at any point without her punishing you for it. Then you finally get in (traitless mind you) and she can (what ducky does) push block your every touch or block whatever you throw at her, or just teleport away. She can be very very frustrating to fight. The way I fight her is I play super super patient (knowing from the beginning that she will always have me beat when it comes to the meter game) and I save my bars for bounce cancle confirms for big damage. I try my hardest to keep her cornered and I attempt to bait/read when they will use teleport and punish accordingly... She is also free as funk on wake up. Throw in a couple MB b3/f3's on knockdown and she will never wakeup again. Arrow can also punish lift with D1 arrow since its -9. Thats pretty much how Arrow gets his 4 wins lol.

YES. Thread is officially derailed haha
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
Hands down grundy vs hawkbitch.

Grundy has NO answer to her. The only way grundy wins is if the person playing hawk girl doesn't know how to Wing evade
 
Decay

Decay

King of the Bill
Worst matchup for lobo is bane probably, but lex is horrible too. When lex puts up his armor it's like 8:2, without his trait on it's pretty even, so overall I'd say it's 6:4 lex.

Anyway.. cyborg get fucked
 
Icy Black Deep

Icy Black Deep

Still training...
Josh Owens said:
Grundy has NO answer to [Hawkgirl]. The only way grundy wins is if the person playing hawk girl doesn't know how to Wing evade
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Unconvinced. Wing Evade is much less powerful if Grundy doesn't just mindlessly Walking Corpse all over the place. At that point Grundy wins if he can touch Hawkgirl about three times.
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
Icy Black Deep said:
Unconvinced. Wing Evade is much less powerful if Grundy doesn't just mindlessly Walking Corpse all over the place. At that point Grundy wins if he can touch Hawkgirl about three times.
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Well no Grundy shouldnt be mindlessly throwing out walking corpse or he'll get blown up by anyone. The only chance grundy has on this match up if he's lucky enough to get her in the corner. Grundy can't do anything abt wing evade 3. Grundy tools become virtually nothing against hawkgirl.
 
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TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Noob
Scoot Magee said:
But once you block her grab thing you can pretty much get in on her. Who have you been playing against?
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So don't just throw it out when you know it's gonna get blocked? :p

Raven can certainly be an annoying as fuck match-up for Green Arrow, but not unwinnable and certainly not close to the worst in the game.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Forbidden_Donut said:
Yeah, I like the ideas you mentioned (especially using slide more), but one of the reasons I dropped arrow and now main batman is that I'm pretty much convinced that you can react to any mixup off of F2. When I play The_SNKE or Blind Ducky, I swear to you, they block whatever mixup I throw at them. It made me realize that once a high level player gets enough experience against Arrow, he can be blocked for days with pretty much no way for you to open your opponant up. Now, specific to Raven, she dominates Arrow full screen. Blocked pillar = either another blocked pillar or a blocked soul crush (in which case you can dash in afterwards). Dashing after a blocked pillar is guessing that she will not do a soul crush, which would punish your dash in attempt and put you full screen again. Thats the guessing game. She will build about a bar to a bar and a half doing this. You CANNOT trait up at any point without her punishing you for it. Then you finally get in (traitless mind you) and she can (what ducky does) push block your every touch or block whatever you throw at her, or just teleport away. She can be very very frustrating to fight. The way I fight her is I play super super patient (knowing from the beginning that she will always have me beat when it comes to the meter game) and I save my bars for bounce cancle confirms for big damage. I try my hardest to keep her cornered and I attempt to bait/read when they will use teleport and punish accordingly... She is also free as funk on wake up. Throw in a couple MB b3/f3's on knockdown and she will never wakeup again. Arrow can also punish lift with D1 arrow since its -9. Thats pretty much how Arrow gets his 4 wins lol.

YES. Thread is officially derailed haha
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I agree with almost everything you said about the match up. You can use trait from mid range especially after a good block. If raven makes a good read up close it can suck but you can use it, dash canceling is key here too. Also I don't think you can react to f2d1 low ice and f2d1 overhead ice. Always ready the arrow in stand position and it will have to be a guess. They won't be able to react to MB slide either.If you just do f2d1 low arrow and f2d3 it can be fuzzy guarded every time.

I pretty much deal with her BS at first and then rush her ass down. GA needs to corner a lot of characters in order to win. He has a strong corner game and the perfect tool (MB slide) to get people there. When they are looking to push block you can raw MB slide from footsie range when she respects you. If she push blocks while in the corner you are still in a good spot to just wait and react. I feel the match is even because of the momentum you can build after getting through her zoning but I never played Ducky.
 
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Billy Dha Kid

Billy Dha Kid

Day 1 phenomenal grab immune
HellblazerHawkman said:
I agree with this on the basis that I used to sub Grundy. But I've only really played bad Hawkgirls who didn't get the MU
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Grundy hawkgirl is 8-2, play grundy fulltime and experience the b.s in this mu. Grundy is also forced to go on chip trait in this mu which already lowers his damage output
 
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Scoot Magee said:
I agree with almost everything you said about the match up. You can use trait from mid range especially after a good block. If raven makes a good read up close it can suck but you can use it, dash canceling is key here too. Also I don't think you can react to f2d1 low ice and f2d1 overhead ice. Always ready the arrow in stand position and it will have to be a guess. They won't be able to react to MB slide either.If you just do f2d1 low arrow and f2d3 it can be fuzzy guarded every time.

I pretty much deal with her BS at first and then rush her ass down. GA needs to corner a lot of characters in order to win. He has a strong corner game and the perfect tool (MB slide) to get people there. When they are looking to push block you can raw MB slide from footsie range when she respects you. If she push blocks while in the corner you are still in a good spot to just wait and react. I feel the match is even because of the momentum you can build after getting through her zoning but I never played Ducky.
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Dude I never thought of that, f2d1 into standing arrow... That's effing brilliant! I always tried to mix people up with f2d1 low ice or f2d13 ice mix up again.. Maybe that's why I'm always being blocked.. lol

And you're sure that the ice mix up is not reactable right?
 
fr stack

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
Icy Black Deep said:
Unconvinced. Wing Evade is much less powerful if Grundy doesn't just mindlessly Walking Corpse all over the place. At that point Grundy wins if he can touch Hawkgirl about three times.
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careful dude , dont tell grundy players how to fight hawkgirl , play any scrub using her and you will see just how fucked the match up is , all hg has to do is press buttons literally thats all she has to do wing evade into the 2 dive kicks she has , spam that like fuck and grundy is stuck in a vortex
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Forbidden_Donut said:
Dude I never thought of that, f2d1 into standing arrow... That's effing brilliant! I always tried to mix people up with f2d1 low ice or f2d13 ice mix up again.. Maybe that's why I'm always being blocked.. lol

And you're sure that the ice mix up is not reactable right?
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Seems that way to me. It works on good players I know that have good reactions. I tried to record the training dummy doing it to see if I was able to block on reaction but it doesn't come out right. I wish you could set p1 to block when recording with the dummy so that the timing is the same.

So yeah when you ready the arrow in standing position after f2d1 you can go directly into jump back ice arrow or low ice arrow. When they respect that everything just becomes way more ambiguous when you have an ice arrow loaded. You'll start hitting people with f2d13, 223, b13 and 33 into low or over head arrow. Throw in mb slide and dash cancels and it all becomes a lot harder to block. A lot of these can be done with fire arrows also. Electric has a lot more range so it tends to go over crouching players in most situations.

Just edited in a bunch of stuff.
 
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Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Cossner said:
Try playing against blindman.
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I don't think I'll ever have that chance because I don't really travel outside of the ny/nj/pa area anymore.

So you're saying you just pretty much get kept out for most of the match? Do you have any recorded matches or anything? I'm not doubting you but I just want too see what you're dealing with. I used to have so much trouble in this match and thought it was terrible but I think I've been playing the match correctly now.

Like I said the only raven I've played offline is @Ray Riazy . I'd like to know what he thinks about the match also. If I remember correctly him and @7L used to play a lot and 7l didn't like the match up either.The only other comparison I have is glass sword but we only played online.

I think his worst matchups are MMH & Aquaman.
 
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REDRUM

REDRUM

www.twitter.com/redrum26
Doombawkz said:
Instead of going for ice arrow b.3 when his trait is up, just load another ice arrow while they are frozen and go for a mix-up into refreeze.
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I here you but thats a lot of work and Aquaman gets his Fish-oil trait back very fast....
 
S

Sami

Noob
Forbidden_Donut said:
Arrow can also punish lift with D1 arrow since its -9. Thats pretty much how Arrow gets his 4 wins lol.
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You don't lift at point blank considering how much range the move has. Its startup of 16 frames is equal to or higher than almost all of her normals, and her normals and strings are all almost safe on block (negative, but safe). Raven should only throw out point-blank lifts if the opponent has slow normals that require perfect timing to punish. Other than that you hit confirm into it or abuse the range of it (it's basically a super-poke that leads to a combo if MB).
 
KHAOTIC_xWULFx

KHAOTIC_xWULFx

Cyborg's Savior
To be honest MMH vs. Cyborg isnt as bad as everyone thinks cyborg can punish is over tele and do a whole lot of other things, but Arrow vs Bane is just unfair lol
 
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