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MKX Raiden

BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
EndofGameBoss said:
I spent the last year playing Raiden and I have to say..he doesn't even need all that. Someone that has very strong fundamentals would do extremely well with Raiden. Imagine for one second...if his walk speed was slightly quicker. His b312 is a pretty good whiff punisher that advances him forward a bit. Add that with a slightly quicker walk speed and MAYBE a faster f2 so he could use f24 as a anti air and good night nurse.

I've never seen a Raiden play strong footsies. It's always a bunch of b.s. setups that fail. Baiting and punishing is his strongest area imo.
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I know he doesn't need it but I would like to see it and how Raiden would be played/how well he would do with them. I play Raiden also and am completely fine with how his tools are currently
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Noob
BigMilk said:
There is no problem. I'm not complaining about anything, just simply stating changes I would like to see (obviously) if MKX were on the engine and character builds were based on previous ones, since several games build on their previous game. Thread is opinion based and everyone it's entitled to their own.
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I didn't mean in any way that there was a serious problem lol. Just saying that's why people will give you shit for it.

But it's the internet lol. Everyone gives everyone shit for everything. Even nice guys like BigMilk!
 
EndofGameBoss

EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
Chaosphere said:
Mannnnn. My whole game was revolved around footsies. Also, Raiden's backdash is arguably the best back dash in the game. Almost NOTHING could catch my backdash after being in -1 to -3 situations except for kitana's d1, smoke's d3, and shang's d3... if I remember correctly.

I used to purposefully do block strings that would leave me at negative, then back dash into b312 and it would whiff punish almost every poke/normal in the game. Only fast advancing specials could hit me out of it. Get this... and you might think this is silly, but @Vagrant and @GGA Saucy Jack saw me do it almost a million times. But I would do a block string such as f23 into lightning ball. Lightning ball is -9 right? But it would cause slight pushback... just enough to where when ANYONE tried to get their punish I'd have enough time to teleport and full combo them for trying to play the game correctly. It was awesome.

F23 is a GREAT string. It's neutral on block and you can f23~ex shocker for full combo.

And Raiden's anti air was already TOP NOTCH with 1~vicinity blast.
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I never used his standing 1 as a anti air. I tend to lean towards f24 into superman, but you have to be in a very specific spot on the screen or it will get beat out by a jump in. I honestly fell in love with Raiden at the end. I spent the first year and a half playing Baraka, so I'm hoping they are both decent in MKX. Raidens tools ended up fitting my style better.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
EndofGameBoss said:
I never used his standing 1 as a anti air. I tend to lean towards f24 into superman, but you have to be in a very specific spot on the screen or it will get beat out by a jump in. I honestly fell in love with Raiden at the end. I spent the first year and a half playing Baraka, so I'm hoping they are both decent in MKX. Raidens tools ended up fitting my style better.
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ooohhhh standing 1 as an anti air is so tiiiight. you can even anti air jump kicks if spaced properly. the combo is 1~vb, dash, shocker, 334, superman. It's like 29%
 
EndofGameBoss

EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
STB Sgt Reed said:
His main problem was his main strings are interruptable. Fix that and his huge hitbox and he moves up the tier list.
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Very true, which caused me to be a more defensive player with him and it worked out a lot better. Walking slightly forward to cause my opponent to whiff an attack and feeding them b312 became a very great feeling lol.
 
Dirtylova

Dirtylova

YOLO FLYING GRAYSON BICH
Whatever they do, just give him a low starter.. Oh, and everything that MKA staff stance had... Yes, that means he has two stances..
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
I don't feel like his strings being interruptable was much of a weakness more than it was by design. I think it made his teleport better because he had more of a reason to use it. If they tried to interrupt and you teleported instead... thank you combo.
 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Vagrant said:
I didn't mean in any way that there was a serious problem lol. Just saying that's why people will give you shit for it.

But it's the internet lol. Everyone gives everyone shit for everything. Even nice guys like BigMilk!
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I know but everyone who knows me knows it won't stop me from doing what I do lol. Now im going to sit back and wait for you to post this same thread for scorpion... ;)
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Chaosphere said:
I don't feel like his strings being interruptable was much of a weakness more than it was by design. I think it made his teleport better because he had more of a reason to use it. If they tried to interrupt and you teleported instead... thank you combo.
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Well they knew you would either tele or finish the string so... I guess it became a guessing game. If you guess they are going to interrupt and you tele instead, you blow them up. But if they anticipate tele... you're fucked.

So yeah, I can see what you mean.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
STB Sgt Reed said:
Well they knew you would either tele or finish the string so... I guess it became a guessing game. If you guess they are going to interrupt and you tele instead, you blow them up. But if they anticipate tele... you're fucked.

So yeah, I can see what you mean.
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Yeah. Except it was a little safer than that. b312 although the gap between b3 and 1 was 7 frames... the animation was still weird enough that you could throw afterwards. I beat some top players doing a lot of b3 into throw.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
BigMilk said:
So I decided to make this thread since it seems like this will be an upcoming trend. What changes do you think Raiden should have for MKX? I think Superman should be 9-11 frames to serve as a better whiff punish from long range and presence on screen. Raiden should have a projectile w different speeds at which they travel on screen(similar to zod). Tele should not be throwable during startup(invulnerable). He should have a low starter and more useful overhead. B312 should have an alternative that either isn't interruptable or hits low.
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raiden doesn't need mixups, he shouldn't be a mixup character at all, all he needs is a fast mid hitting normal and solid connection to anti-air in, a bit more interesting projectile game would be cute, but he is fine he is just a very high level char.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
EndofGameBoss said:
I spent the last year playing Raiden and I have to say..he doesn't even need all that. Someone that has very strong fundamentals would do extremely well with Raiden. Imagine for one second...if his walk speed was slightly quicker. His b312 is a pretty good whiff punisher that advances him forward a bit. Add that with a slightly quicker walk speed and MAYBE a faster f2 so he could use f24 as a anti air and good night nurse.

I've never seen a Raiden play strong footsies. It's always a bunch of b.s. setups that fail. Baiting and punishing is his strongest area imo.
Click to expand...
i agree, all the raiden mains i saw were weaksauce. I'll go out on a limb and say this, i haven't seen a better raiden then mine towards the end after my fundamentals grew to be really solid, and if he is a similar design in mk10 i will play him alongside the character i deem most broken.

most raidens i saw played without sense or reason, he is character built to runaway and punish the opponent for overexerting themselves in either the footsie game or pressure defensive game. He is designed to neutralize the opponents options so you can essentially attempt to force the opponent into taking an unnecessary risk as a product of you having the lifelead.

In order for this to appropriately happen your footsies have to be top notch, you can't let them jump, you have to whiff punish, and you have to effectively teleport out of small gapped situations, for example, counter-poking with teleport or in a pressure gap when you read they are going to do a string. Ex teleport is designed as a free escape so you can backup and create space, and whiff punish if they make a mistake (or as a punishment for them reading a teleport). Some people try to use it as a pressure starter when he isn't a pressure character at all. He's a pick and pop and annoy the opponent character. I love his design, and mark my words if i deem him with the proper tools to compete i will use him in mk10 and be better than every other raiden.
 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Peckapowa said:
raiden doesn't need mixups, he shouldn't be a mixup character at all, all he needs is a fast mid hitting normal and solid connection to anti-air in, a bit more interesting projectile game would be cute, but he is fine he is just a very high level char.
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Yea i already acknowledged that he doesn't need any of these. Thesr are just things I would like to see.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
BigMilk said:
Yea i already acknowledged that he doesn't need any of these. Thesr are just things I would like to see.
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i would like to see a bit better zoning, just because peopel thought he was ass, that why he'll be over the top annoying at runaway, and i'll fucking wreck people's face in.
 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Peckapowa said:
i agree, all the raiden mains i saw were weaksauce. I'll go out on a limb and say this, i haven't seen a better raiden then mine towards the end after my fundamentals grew to be really solid, and if he is a similar design in mk10 i will play him alongside the character i deem most broken.

most raidens i saw played without sense or reason, he is character built to runaway and punish the opponent for overexerting themselves in either the footsie game or pressure defensive game. He is designed to neutralize the opponents options so you can essentially attempt to force the opponent into taking an unnecessary risk as a product of you having the lifelead.

In order for this to appropriately happen your footsies have to be top notch, you can't let them jump, you have to whiff punish, and you have to effectively teleport out of small gapped situations, for example, counter-poking with teleport or in a pressure gap when you read they are going to do a string. Ex teleport is designed as a free escape so you can backup and create space, and whiff punish if they make a mistake (or as a punishment for them reading a teleport). Some people try to use it as a pressure starter when he isn't a pressure character at all. He's a pick and pop and annoy the opponent character. I love his design, and mark my words if i deem him with the proper tools to compete i will use him in mk10 and be better than every other raiden.
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My Raiden was better than yours lol ;) but in your defense I think I was interested in the character before you and never played your Raiden towards the end of MK9 life, but I do remember you saying my Raiden was better...
 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
I honestly would love a slow/med/fast projectile coupled with tele would be sick
 
TaffyMeat

TaffyMeat

Infinite Meter Kombos
BigMilk said:
There is no problem. I'm not complaining about anything, just simply stating changes I would like to see (obviously) if MKX were on the engine and character builds were based on previous ones, since several games build on their previous game. Thread is opinion based and everyone it's entitled to their own.
Click to expand...
Do we know which engine will run mkx? Will it be unreal 4? Glacier engine? Euphoria?
 
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