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USF4 Final Changes released

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SFIV is so rigid now, in terms of meta. Both of these characters have evolved around their setups, and balance changes up until now have done nothing but bolster that. This is not like IGAU being a year old. This is an almost 6-year-old series being played in a time where EVERYTHING is spread around much, much faster than the old days. At this point, it's really, really easy to see who is going to be affected heavily by the DWU change. Characters that played off of hard knockdowns a lot are hurt. Characters that struggled to deal with said knockdowns are helped. Characters who were strong for reasons not related are helped indirectly by a shift of importance in the metagame.
I'm sure that having a bunch of asians working on balancing the game won't destroy knockdown characters who aren't already good.

It's easy to see effection but not the extent of it.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
They didn't give Dan what he really needed, so that's no good...

Cl.HK ~ Cl.MP to work on everyone in the entire cast is all I ask for.
Watch this video to see how insanely specific the link is:
While they didn't give him that, the expanded HP koryu hitbox helps.
 
Combos are links based on frame data. If an attack's startup is lower than the frame advantage of an attack on hit, then it will combo (unless other factors such as range or hitboxes interfere).

Gouken's changes are buffs, but I don't feel like they all will actually impact something.
Ah, so if a move has 5 frame hit stun and any move below 5 frames I can link or chain? Who has time to figure it all out, I don't.

What about block strings? I never played SF because who has time to sit there and practice linking that one move...
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I'm sure that having a bunch of asians working on balancing the game won't destroy knockdown characters who aren't already good.

It's easy to see effection but not the extent of it.
It's very easy to see the extent of it. Again, this is not a young game we're dealing with. It's old enough to have a very rigid meta.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
It's very easy to see the extent of it. Again, this is not a young game we're dealing with. It's old enough to have a very rigid meta.
We'll see, I think the ones who actually test the game know just a bit more.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Ah, so if a move has 5 frame hit stun and any move below 5 frames I can link or chain?

What about block strings? I never played SF because who has time to sit there and practice linking that one move...
Not necessarily hitstun, but the advantage on hit, just to avoid any confusion.

When it comes to chaining normals, only most lights chain. Some characters in certain modes (such as Juri Ultra 1 or Yun Super) can chain just about every normal.

Blockstrings operate in the same manner. Anything faster than the advantage will make for a blockstring with no gaps. Outside of chained normals and some heavy-advantage normals, there aren't that many airtight blockstrings in SFIV.
 
It's very easy to see the extent of it. Again, this is not a young game we're dealing with. It's old enough to have a very rigid meta.
Who do you recommend playing? I don't want to play Ryu. I liked Ibuki, but she's hard, Sakura. All the characters are cool in SFIV.

And how do I get my wrist to not hurt when using stick? I swear I just run back to pad like a little bitch, because my wrist I use to hit buttons gets sore after 2 mins >.>.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
We'll see, I think the ones who actually test the game know just a bit more.
They have been saying the same thing I've been saying. Actually, everyone who has been paying attention are saying the exact same thing.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Who do you recommend playing? I don't want to play Ryu. I liked Ibuki, but she's hard, Sakura. All the characters are cool in SFIV.

And how do I get my wrist to not hurt when using stick? I swear I just run back to pad like a little bitch, because my wrist I use to hit buttons gets sore after 2 mins >.>.
Sakura is a pretty easy character to pick-up, and she has a lot of reward when she hits you. Her execution isn't that demanding either.
 
Not necessarily hitstun, but the advantage on hit, just to avoid any confusion.

When it comes to chaining normals, only most lights chain. Some characters in certain modes (such as Juri Ultra 1 or Yun Super) can chain just about every normal.

Blockstrings operate in the same manner. Anything faster than the advantage will make for a blockstring with no gaps. Outside of chained normals and some heavy-advantage normals, there aren't that many airtight blockstrings in SFIV.
Than how come I see people blocking for days? Like when ChrisG has all that Sakura pressure.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Who do you recommend playing? I don't want to play Ryu. I liked Ibuki, but she's hard, Sakura. All the characters are cool in SFIV.

And how do I get my wrist to not hurt when using stick? I swear I just run back to pad like a little bitch, because my wrist I use to hit buttons gets sore after 2 mins >.>.
Ryu is good for getting you into the general fundamentals of SFIV. If you aren't that understanding of SF in general, he's probably the best character to go to until you get comfortable. But if you're adamant on not playing him, it's down to whoever you like. Sakura is a fairly simple character, just requires a higher level of execution than Ryu.

As for the stick part, you just have to keep playing and let your hands adjust to it.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Incomming Quote Shower here :p

Tsumiji got buffed!

I hope this means the loops will work on more characters. One of the things I hated about the loop was that I had to memorize which characters it worked on... Leave it a just frame but don't make me memorize sh*t! lol.
Target combo 4 also got buffed, so you can do the basic Lp,Mp,HP xx L Tsumuji (lp), (Mk) xx Neckbreaker on any character, even when they're crouching.


A quick google leads me to posts and videos explaining and complaining about her "braindead vortex". I think I just found my character lol.



Is this because of the delayed wake-up mechanic? While I know it takes away frame-perfect vortexes, I would've thought that someone like Ibuki who can modify the timing of her kuni throws (I think!) could still give people grief and force them to guess correctly, i.e. whether to delay or not delay the wake-up. It might not be guaranteed, but it's still a threat.

Disclaimer: most of my SF4 knowledge comes from EVO lol
Her execution barrier is high tho.

Ibuki and Hakan are essentially ruined, actually.
About Ibuki i have to disagree tho, with the buffs she got, she now has lots of defensive options, less probability to miss hitting stuffs like her target combos on crouching characters, Kazegiri is now brain dead too, and even without Kunai Vortex she still has a real strong Oki game, Tsujigoe has no recovery frames on ground according to others ibuki players is now a safe jump, from command dashes to other baitups on the delayed Wakeup System, i will say she is fine, or maybe too fine. It will be a bit like Mk9 wakeup system now.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Than how come I see people blocking for days? Like when ChrisG has all that Sakura pressure.
People know there are risks for just trying to reversal out. Chris could stop short and just block and make them fly into the air for mashing a DP, to which Chris can answer with a high damage combo. Also, Chris generally is chaining his lights too, so they are forced into blocking, too. When you block in SFIV, if you are put into a tight blockstring, you will automatically block.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
About Ibuki i have to disagree tho, with the buffs she got, she now has lots of defensive options, less probability to miss hitting stuffs like her target combos on crouching characters, Kazegiri is now brain dead too, and even without Kunai Vortex she still has a real strong Oki game, Tsujigoe has no recovery frames on ground according to others ibuki players is now a safe jump, from command dashes to other baitups on the delayed Wakeup System, i will say she is fine, or maybe too fine. It will be a bit like Mk9 wakeup system now.
Yeah, she can hit her combos better, but guess where they generally lead to? Hard knockdowns. The more reliable AA option is good, though. But you can't deny, her gameplay is so rooted in the hard knockdown. That's the main reason why the original neckbreaker nerf was messed up. She already had a nerfed wake-up game due to DWU.

It's just a big change that negatively affects her, no matter how you look at it. She hasn't really changed much to compensate for this. Only one change assists her neutral game, and really, all it does is allow her to use a bar for a less strict AA option that leads to less than her existing AA (b.MP).
 
People know there are risks for just trying to reversal out. Chris could stop short and just block and make them fly into the air for mashing a DP, to which Chris can answer with a high damage combo. Also, Chris generally is chaining his lights too, so they are forced into blocking, too. When you block in SFIV, if you are put into a tight blockstring, you will automatically block.
Lol lets play, I don't get salty on Capcom games for some reason. But it's really too late to even play this competitive. God damn Japan.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Lol lets play, I don't get salty on Capcom games for some reason. But it's really too late to even play this competitive. God damn Japan.
Haha I'll play some other time. Fiancee has the TV controls for now. :/
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Yeah, she can hit her combos better, but guess where they generally lead to? Hard knockdowns. The more reliable AA option is good, though. But you can't deny, her gameplay is so rooted in the hard knockdown. That's the main reason why the original neckbreaker nerf was messed up. She already had a nerfed wake-up game due to DWU.

It's just a big change that negatively affects her, no matter how you look at it. She hasn't really changed much to compensate for this. Only one change assists her neutral game, and really, all it does is allow her to use a bar for a less strict AA option that leads to less than her existing AA (b.MP).
I really think the DWU won't affect Ibuki that much, but lets see
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
Ok I gotta admit I haven't played SF4 seriously since vanilla (stopped playing Super after a week or so). I still watch it as it's one of the most interesting games to watch. Anyway my main is Fei Long I know he has been good for awhile now, but how do people feel his nerfs will place him? Will he still be good because that Rekka nerf worries me.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Ok I gotta admit I haven't played SF4 seriously since vanilla (stopped playing Super after a week or so). I still watch it as it's one of the most interesting games to watch. Anyway my main is Fei Long I know he has been good for awhile now, but how do people feel his nerfs will place him? Will he still be good because that Rekka nerf worries me.
Last I heard, the rekka range nerf is mostly negligible. The crouching short chaining into itself change is pretty stupid, though.

He benefits from the shift of meta importance, since it's shaping to be more geared for footsies. I think he'll be fine. Most of his nerfs seem to stem from that meta shift, just to make sure he's not too good because of that.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Ok I gotta admit I haven't played SF4 seriously since vanilla (stopped playing Super after a week or so). I still watch it as it's one of the most interesting games to watch. Anyway my main is Fei Long I know he has been good for awhile now, but how do people feel his nerfs will place him? Will he still be good because that Rekka nerf worries me.
I'm not sure where Fei-Short will be placing now, but Gouken got his Sengokushohah Buffed:DOGE
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
@Karried - people are scared to do anything when Chris G's Sakura is pressuring because he is good hahaha. What he's doing, as others have pointed out, are NOT blockstrings. It's too much to explain in detail, but he is running an offense that pressures with the threat of blowing up people's option select crouching throw breaks. Chris G has godly execution and will blow you up hard if he gets an opening, so that + Sakura's high damage and stun + scared to break throws + Chris has amazing defense ----> people get scared to do anything! =) That is why it looks like they're locked down.


T Hawk will now be a threat
Gief isn't as screwed as everyone thinks he is.
Deejay is gonna be alot better
Gouken will be better
E Ryu and Oni both will be better

Uhhh more importantly though can we talk about Guys Ex Hurricane Kick now being 2 frames? wtf
I sure hope we see more Hawk. Guile and Hawk are my mains in SF4. Guile since day 1, Hawk since, um, "day 1 super?" =P I'm not entirely convinced that Hawk's buffs are quite enough, but I'm more than happy to wait and see.

Deejay is definitely going to be better, but I still don't know if it's enough. =\ We have Ryu, THE classic shoto. We have Guile, THE classic charge character. Deejay fits somewhere in the middle... an offensive character character, right? But when you look at all of the buffs that Guile received, it's like... jeez, why wouldn't I just play Guile?

I hope I'm completely wrong though. I love playing Deejay and I'd love to see him played more. A LOT more. As of right now my favorite all-time Deej memory is Jason Cole (DJ) upsetting Sanford (Sagat) during SF4 teams here in Philly several years ago... can't even remember which event haha. It was that long ago. I'd like to have more Deejay memories than just that one.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
I'm so indifferent to Sakura changes,like was Capcom so scare to give her something new or give her a buff or two.Also no more post-otoshi level 3 fireball in the corner.The only plus I see is they fix her Tatsu,Shoryu, and give her another footsie tool to work with