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Bank of Perfect Legend: INJ ranking system

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This is unfair, because PSN players don't have a TrueSkill rating even though we're clearly the superior fighting gamers. :)

I mean, by a long shot.
 

KDZ

It's amore, BABY.
This is categorically false in our community. There are top players everywhere. NorCal, SoCal, Vegas, Atl, Chicago, MD etc... A lot of these areas have 1-2 big events at most. The vast majority of top players in this game don't have near the amount of events to attend as a select few in the NY/NJ general area.

Trying to force a sale by stating things that are completely incorrect doesn't make any sense. If anything you're 'penalizing' the majority of top players, who live outside the NorthEast.
You know, I'm starting to feel a way about CrimsonDick implying that the TriState only wins events because they're closer to us.

I had to fly to both TFC and Evo. Winterbrawl was my "Socal Regionals in my backyard".

I didn't win those because "every major is closer to the tri state", and I had to pay hundreds of dollars to get to each because I work, essentially negating the whole "you can totally drive there" reasoning.

"Making a sale", and other subtle things you've been saying point heavily towards you being a passive aggressive keyboard warrior.

Long story short?
Fuck it, implement whatever idiotic system you want.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You know, I'm starting to feel a way about CrimsonDick implying that the TriState only wins events because they're closer to us.
I never said or implied this. And I never stooped to the level of calling you names..

Note the difference between saying:
-"Northeast players are only good enough to win Northeast events", and saying
-"An ATP ranking system will end up greatly favoring Northeast players because they have so many more sizable events within carpool/easy driving range"

I know you like to post pics about jimmies being rustled, but you aren't going to rustle mine by calling me a dick or idiotic.

If you come here asking for us to pay for a project, we have to evaluate it. If I came to you selling a $200 fight stick and said "just do it", you wouldn't buy it unless you took a hard look at whether it was useful to you or not, or whether there were better options.

I'm not passive agressive; and if you'd like to call me to discuss this man to man (you have my number) you're more than welcome. But this is ridiculous.
 
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rev0lver

Come On Die Young
You know, I'm starting to feel a way about CrimsonDick implying that the TriState only wins events because they're closer to us.

I had to fly to both TFC and Evo. Winterbrawl was my "Socal Regionals in my backyard".

I didn't win those because "every major is closer to the tri state", and I had to pay hundreds of dollars to get to each because I work, essentially negating the whole "you can totally drive there" reasoning.
Lol I honestly think it takes longer for me to get to Philadelphia than it does for WC to fly there.
 

Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV (home of The Break stream)
Administrator
Well, there's SoCal Regionals, but no one went.
No one in the west coast going to a major is not the fault of the east coast players.

Again, all I see you doing is complaining that east coast has more events than the west coast. Is that east coast's fault? Maybe if more people went to WC events, there would be more WC events. Yes, there are more EC events, but they are also FAR more competitive simply because of the pure number of attendees that those events get. Yes, the system will start to skew towards east coast; but again, if WC cared enough to have more events, there is nothing stopping them from doing so. Again, you're penalizing east coast for west coast's shortcomings.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
No one in the west coast going to a major is not the fault of the east coast players.

Again, all I see you doing is complaining that east coast has more events than the west coast. Is that east coast's fault? Maybe if more people went to WC events, there would be more WC events. Yes, there are more EC events, but they are also FAR more competitive simply because of the pure number of attendees that those events get. Yes, the system will start to skew towards east coast; but again, if WC cared enough to have more events, there is nothing stopping them from doing so. Again, you're penalizing east coast for west coast's shortcomings.
What about setting a limit per region for events so you establish locals that count

For example NYC area if one attended all could rack up 9 events compared to 4 for WNF area
 

Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV (home of The Break stream)
Administrator
Its clear that CrimsonShadow wants to do an ELO system... which is easy enough to do, but has its won fair share of issues... The problem with ELO is that it has flaws in tournament design. Its really made for 1 on 1 matches. It is considered a "race" system, it can end up rewarding people simply for attending the most events... and it has a problem where it can severely punish people for simply having a bad day (something very common in fighting games). The Association of Tennis Professionals Entry Ranking system was designed to combat a lot of the inherit issues in ELO.

ELO is also sensitive to the ORDER of matches... because each match is representative of itself. Its not just about who you beat, but also when you beat them. Yes, there are algorithms to take care of ELO ranking in single events, but not if events are submitted in the wrong order. For instance, I submit an event that happened yesterday. The rankings would be handled based on that date and would preclude the adding of new events before that date; since ELO is based on order. In order to add new events previous to the date; you would have to rebuild the entire ranking system after every single tournament that is submitted. The ATP system allows a rolling ranking, without a concern for the order in which events are submitted into the system.

The tennis ATP system is probably the best "neutral" ranking system; since it bases itself solely on tournament results. It doesn't care who you played against, just how you performed. Player A can be the best player in the world, who only ever loses to one person, his training partner Player B... but Player B has never won a tournament... with ELO, there is a chance Player B could be ranked higher than Player A. Since ELO would consider B beating A, as a "bad beat", and include it in the rankings. Meanwhile, B gets a large windfall because he beat the top ranked player.

The issue with the tennis ATP system is that it takes a bit more work to monitor to make sure TOs aren't gaming the system; while ELO just handles itself. I've been developing this ranking system since 2009. Its the best way to handle fighting game events in a non-league style fashion I have found.

ELO also suffers from the issue where it actually promotes top players into NOT attending events. If you are high ranked on the ladder, you may not want to attend anymore events because you put your ranking at risk. This is where you have issues of when a new game comes out and some player abuses the meta; in time people will learn how to beat him, but by then he has earned himself a top ELO rating. Then he drops out from tournaments and simply plays online and trolls the forums. Unless you do a yearly ELO rating reset, he's going keep that rating forever... and a yearly reset would upset the people who still attend events, by throwing their hard-earned work in the trash... for a non-league tournament structure, this is not recommended. In addition, you may have issues where tournament players will selectively choose what events they go to, depending on who else is going to be at that event. Maybe they don't want to play against a specific player and ruin their ranking?

The ATP system is designed to "stale" older rankings. So it promotes people to continue attending events to meet the minimum event requirement. In addition, it automatically rolls retired players out of the rankings. As well, since it doesn't care who is actually in the event, people don't have to be selective about what tournaments they attend. Basically, the issue with ELO is all social problems; not mathematical problems.