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Pro tip: About footsies (in Injustice or otherwise)

Are you a scrub? JK >:-) Was this helpful?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • Total voters
    16

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
"Oh god why is that safe"
"That combo does so much damage"
"Ugh why can't I do anything on their wakeup"

If after you read this you still say these things to yourself.


Your sir are a scrub.




Footsies at their core are you betting your options against someone else s. Weighing risk reward all while being aware of the space that you and your opponent both control. While it does require reactions and spacial awareness, above all it requires you to have the better ability to make decisions. What these decisions entail is first being aware of your options then being aware of your opponents. Deeper than that you have to think about what the end results if you or your opponent are successful in your gambit. This is where Risk /Reward comes in. If an opponent has a move that is damaging, has far reach and is safe or leads into a combo you should think I need to not be here(and out of instinct most people will eventually start getting out of the way), because why would your opponent not do this move right? The Risk reward is in their favor. The problem lies when a players optimal range may be INSIDE of that range or if they are competing for the same space. Most players have issue with playing at obvious disadvantage. What are you to do how do you deal with this? Well if you are a member of TYM and a scrub you probably complain that there is no footsies in the game and talk about the end result of what happened when you played the game incorrectly. IE EVERYTHING IN THE TOP OF THE THREAD.

I'm not here to bash you though I'm help you . What you need to do is think about how to make your opponent do things you want them to. First thing you have to looks at is your most important tools and these go for any character in any game ever. The lifebar, the clock, and where you stand on the screen. I promise you if you consider these things every time you commit to a decision and you aren't already, your play WILL improve EXPONENTIALLY.

Lets talk about offense and defense because this is where you are going to start data gathering and allowing your opponent to make your decisions for you. How are they approaching you? why are they approaching you. Are they down on life when they make the approach, are they up on life when they make the approach, Have they gotten most of their damage while approaching,was it during your attempts to approach them. All of these points are to be considered and to be weighed against the risk reward knowledge you have about the game. The player will tell you what they are trying to do though and why.

If a character has risk reward in their favor(ie safe launcher) when knocked down and you are performing oki maybe its best to use the knockdown as a chance just to get to optimal positioning press your least risky option. If a combo does half life from that wakeup launcher your so worried about best choice is not to apply oki unless you have half a bar to lose and still be in a winning position. The opponent obviously just dealt with failure in being knocked down to begin with mentally. You had just won in position press that especially if its your only safe option. You have an advantage even if you are down on life and pressed for time you just forced a situation. Position is the third piece of the puzzle that we just talked about(Position, Life, Time) and if oki is taken out of the equation then its just out of the equation its just an extension of the screen position portion anyway.

I could Keep writing on and on about the subject, I think TYM should take the conversation from here though. I wrote this because alot of people of TYM want to talk about how x character or move is screwed up but none of what I read applies to actual fighting game situations. Just the game specific result which is meaningless without the context. The claims about footsies are absurd specifically pertaining to Injustice. To say there are no Footsies is to say there is no decisions to be made in the game and that there is no human there to make you calculate your decisions against theirs.
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
Sooooooo, all-in-all:

"STFU SCRUB, ADAPT!!!!"?
3 things

1 Yes the post is about adaptation more or less but not in the context of game balance. Fighting game strategy is about adapting on the fly and changing what decisions you make in game based on the decisions your opponent makes. The post is meant to make people think about these concepts and hopefully improve their play.

2 Idk how you read all that in 3 minutes.

3 Arent you supposed to be using pink text?
 

NoxiousDonny

"Cheap Grubber"
3 things

1 Yes the post is about adaptation more or less but not in the context of game balance. Fighting game strategy is about adapting on the fly and changing what decisions you make in game based on the decisions your opponent makes. The post is meant to make people think about these concepts and hopefully improve their play.

2 Idk how you read all that in 3 minutes.

3 Arent you supposed to be using pink text?
@3. Lol! How many people new about that bet? Anyway, I told him he doesn't have to. And he can't on his phone.
 

TaffyMeat

Infinite Meter Kombos
You mean poking. Jab with 1. Just because it's called footsies does not mean it's with feet. MK footsies started around mK1 with d+hk/lk to poke out of the corner. People have no idea how to use footsies in mk9 and end up thinking d+4 the whole match equals skill. Footsies at best is chip damage on block and used to pressure. But don't rely on only footsies. Oi..... smell my big toe
 

ryumanjisen

I only work in black,sometimes in very dark grey.
"
While it does require reactions and spacial awareness, above all it requires you to have the better ability to make decisions. What these decisions entail is first being aware of your options then being aware of your opponents.
Very well written, sir. The entire text is useful, but the part I quoted is the one I consider essential. In the end, a fighting game is about making choices and, most important, KNOWING your options and your opponent options.

Pure Sun Tzu: "Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles".
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
Very well written, sir. The entire text is useful, but the part I quoted is the one I consider essential. In the end, a fighting game is about making choices and, most important, KNOWING your options and your opponent options.

Pure Sun Tzu: "Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles".

Definitely I have a whole essay written up on winning my theory is that its a 3 part process that can be taught like a skill. Summing it up knowing your options and knowing your opponents are basically 2 of the three steps.
 
In other words, Injustice isn't the same as other fighters out there, so you actually have to come up with different strategies in order to win. People are acknowledging this at last.

And it's not like 2D fighters are exactly hard to learn new things with anyway...
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
Footsies in IGAU are present but awkward. The same basic principles of footsies apply, however because of huge levels, slower walk speed, etc footsies play out a bit different than the norm.
I wouldnt even say that injustices neutral/ footsies game plays out that differently than anything weve seen before. I would liken it more to a Guilty Gear or a Blazblue where as each character in the game has a very specific purpose. Results and situations are very dynamic (high damage combos, Hard to react to mixups, characters approaching from very different angles) I would even relate it more towards Blazblue comparing Trait to the Drive button as in every character gets their own entire mechanic that further individualizes them.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I think the issue many have is mainly with patientence. Many want to get in and get in quick and exploit the damage they can do. Another issue I see in many is they want the combo, they think combos are what makes for the win and that alone is what makes them the best players. The truth is, yes combos help knowing your strings and how to best link them togethere consistantly will help you get a win, but there are many cases where using a combo is not needed. I mained HG for a while until I found character I was more comforatble with. even though she has high damage output combos in the corner and even at mid-screen, her fights mainaly revolved around placement and using her tools to land attacks that cause more damage than what you get from a combo. This post the OP made is very informative and I quite enjoyed it and likely will now be implimenting it more into what I know now.

Also it is important to maybe not try and main every characetr in the game, but as one had quoted the Art of War already, you need to understabd the whole cast and what they are capable of, knowing this will help one understand how to approach the opponent.
 
I wouldnt even say that injustices neutral/ footsies game plays out that differently than anything weve seen before. I would liken it more to a Guilty Gear or a Blazblue where as each character in the game has a very specific purpose. Results and situations are very dynamic (high damage combos, Hard to react to mixups, characters approaching from very different angles) I would even relate it more towards Blazblue comparing Trait to the Drive button as in every character gets their own entire mechanic that further individualizes them.
I understand clearly, but you gotta keep in mind that most TYM users first fighting game experience was MK9.

My personal opinion (If anyone actually cares) is that IGAU has it's own feel. I agree it's comparable to BB as far as Drives/Traits, but IGAU is too sluggish to really compare to a GG.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I understand clearly, but you gotta keep in mind that most TYM users first fighting game experience was MK9.

My personal opinion (If anyone actually cares) is that IGAU has it's own feel. I agree it's comparable to BB as far as Drives/Traits, but IGAU is too sluggish to really compare to a GG.
Suddenly with the mention of GG and BB I nearly now feel I might ba able to play those damn games now.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
They're solid fighters lol.
Yeah I use to play GG alot back in the day I miss that game I'm actually hype as hell for the new PS4 GG coming out and I have had BB since it was put out just rarely really play it anymore.

Stupid random though actually, when I was in Great Lakes, IL for Navy boot camp GG was the first Arcade game I played after the graduation ceremony, shocked me like crazy that it was in their MWR center.
 

Chakk dizzle

That's baaaaane
Take
Did you just call me a scrub? What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I have won EVO ten times, and I’ve defeated Tom Brady six times in a row, and I have a 3000 King of the Hills streak. I’m the best fighter in the entire world. You are nothing to me but just another scrub. I will wipe you the fuck out with a combo the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with Shazam. Not only am I extensively trained in Injustice, but I have access to every fighting game ever made and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will spam all over you and you will drown in it. I'll use a fucking fatality on you, kiddo.
Take your meds bro.
 

A New Angel Is Advent

mutton basher
I wouldnt even say that injustices neutral/ footsies game plays out that differently than anything weve seen before. I would liken it more to a Guilty Gear or a Blazblue where as each character in the game has a very specific purpose. Results and situations are very dynamic (high damage combos, Hard to react to mixups, characters approaching from very different angles) I would even relate it more towards Blazblue comparing Trait to the Drive button as in every character gets their own entire mechanic that further individualizes them.
It's a stretch to compare this game to an air dasher. Mobility in anime games completely changes the dynamics of fundamentals. Footsies play out differently when there are more mobility options and the opponents aren't as grounded. The fundamentals are different in that anime games reward good blocking, in injustice I've noticed a lot of players will do anything to avoid blocking. When you can air block and double jump to bait antiairs, it becomes more chaotic than igau
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
I understand clearly, but you gotta keep in mind that most TYM users first fighting game experience was MK9.
I think this is exactly why more fundamentals based posts need to be talked about here because while the sf community had the tag 09er to all the people that started with the most recent sf the new mk9 people didnt get that same treatment. Now alot of people think it was a bad thing to be chastised like the newcomers were in the sf4 community but in the end it made them stronger they realized that there were big parts of the game they knew nothing about and it pushed a good chunk of 09ers to play the game at now an international level. TYM was a bit more open about knowledge sharing and playing with new players when the new mk came out which is why new players are more tech focused than fundamentals focused.
I dont think there necessarily needs to be a frat boy style initiation to the games like the sf community did. I do think there needs to be resources available for new players though something in the vein of domination 101 that S-kill did.

It's a stretch to compare this game to an air dasher. Mobility in anime games completely changes the dynamics of fundamentals. Footsies play out differently when there are more mobility options and the opponents aren't as grounded. The fundamentals are different in that anime games reward good blocking, in injustice I've noticed a lot of players will do anything to avoid blocking. When you can air block and double jump to bait antiairs, it becomes more chaotic than igau
Well in most GOOD airdash games and i guess to reference bb and gg again specifically you cant airblock antiairs only air to airs. In those games you also have to spend meter to barrier block to cancel your dash otherwise your movement is just about as stiff as it is in igau. Airblocking is typaclly part of the air to air game and air to air has its own dynamic in injustice.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart