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Choosing a main/team

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Overused: Cage, Cyrax

Underused: CSZ, Stryker, Nightwolf, Sheeva, Kenshi

Overrated: Jax

Underrated: Raiden, Ermac

I'd say get a team of 3, something like:
Kenshi/Ermac/Stryker (Zoner)
Nightwolf/CSZ (underused)
Raiden (balanced)
 

OSpliffySmitheeyO

tym_smitheey
Actually, I did run a set with a friend last night using him. I felt like he fit me as a zoner way more so than Kenshi, and I even won the Freddy mirror match we played, officially making me the best Freddy in my city. XD

That being said, I'll be messing with him, but I don't think I'm going to main him. I had way more fun with Ermac last night, to be honest.
./sad face ;)
 

NKZero

Noob
Altaire thanks a lot bud for these useful responses. Just one more pestering question: what separates Raiden from Smoke? Why d'you think he's better?
 

Altaire

Noob
Altaire thanks a lot bud for these useful responses. Just one more pestering question: what separates Raiden from Smoke? Why d'you think he's better?
Smoke doesn't have a teleport that's lightning fast to get him out of pretty much every unfavorable situation the game can throw at him. The teleport is about 80% of what makes Raiden so good, he just happens to have all the other tools necessary to supplement it.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
It is interesting that a character everyone says is top 5 has never had new players picking her up.
I don't think she's top 5. I think she's in the same tier as Cage and Sub-Zero - upper mid. I think her bad matchups are: Kenshi, Kabal, Freddy, Sonya, Reptile, Jax and Mileena... possibly Liu Kang, too.

I will be told I am wrong for putting Kitana and Cage in upper mid and not top tier, but whatever. I firmly believe the top tier consists of: Kabal, Kenshi, Raiden, Jax, Sonya, Kung Lao, Freddy, Smoke, Skarlett, Sektor and Cyrax before it could Kitana.
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
D'you not think he loses to Sonya, Kabal or Cyber Sub? I feel those are his bad match-ups tbh though I know you play Cyber Sub so you probably know more about that match-up than I do. Other than few (or no) bad match-ups, what makes Raiden so good? He seems to have less tools than your average top tier character i.e. Kabal, Kenshi etc.
I feel like CSZ vs Ermac is not that bad. Ermac punishes DK's with full punish everytime. Oce C- Sub gets in, Ermac can have some trouble, but overall they even eachother out. I'd say its a 5-5, or maybe a little in Ermacs favor, as he can telly on reaction to ice ball and can effectivly keep Cyber out with push. This one is pretty much just about who hits who first. Not too many great Ermacs around to test it though.
 

Death

Noob
People think Raiden loses to Cyber Sub for the silliest goddamn reasons, don't listen to a word you've heard about that matchup. I've played both sides of that matchup extensively, both with my Cyber Sub against Perfect Legend's Raiden, and my Raiden against J360's Cyber Sub. I might've played him against Usedforglue a couple times as well, I can't remember.

Raiden vs. Cyber Sub is strictly a 5-5. Most people seem to think it's in Cyber Sub's favor because 1) he can parry in between two of Raiden's strings and 2) he can punish the teleport with instant air divekick. Well, the problem with both of these concepts is 1) Raiden has no fucking reason to be throwing those strings out and 2) Raiden can punish any blocked divekick with a superman, 100% of the time, no matter how low on the hitbox it connects. When I play PL's Raiden, I CANNOT divekick him under any circumstances, unless it's in reaction to a fireball. I get blown up for trying to do it any other time.

Honestly, I don't even know where this idea stems from. Raiden should never be throwing out 3 3 4 unless it's to punish on block, and he should never be throwing out B3 1 2 unless it's to whiff punish or counter-poke. As for the instant air divekick idea, holy shit, has anyone actually TRIED this against a decent Raiden player? Like, if I play a Cyber Sub with my Raiden, I welcome them to try this, because I promise you I'll take them for free if they do. First off, an instant air divekick is going to come out in about 8 or 9 frames at best; that's not any better than Kenshi's charge, Lao's 2 1, Sonya's 1 1 4 or Setktor's 1 2 B1. Hell, Cyber Sub's own 1 1 string is 9 frames. On top of that, if Raiden just teleports into block, there's a very good chance the divekick will just get blocked and subsequently blown up. Also, if the divekick fails to autocorrect, he can blow you up with a superman. The only other edge Cyber Sub has over Raiden is that Cyber Sub can parry all of Raiden's combo starters, but if Raiden baits a parry, he can punish it on reaction with a superman, or a V blast into safe jump. Neither one can be parried for whatever reason. In fact, if you're really quick and you're really looking for it, you can EX shocker to punish a parry for full combos. The irony is that of all the Raidens I've ever played, Justin Wong played the matchup best, and he'd never played a Cyber Sub before in his life.

Sonya and Kabal really aren't bad matchups at all. If Sonya whiffs a D4 or cartwheel in open space, Raiden can superman to beat either, and he can also whiff punish a cartwheel with B3 1 2 for full combos, if he can bait it. The teleport is a pretty solid answer to a lot of what makes Sonya so dumb, and the fact that he can punish her D4 by playing footsies to make it whiff is a huge asset. 5-5 matchup, IMO. The same is also true of Kabal. As far back as it may be, I feel Maxter vs. Erik Warda from Season's Beatings does a great job of illustrating why. There's really nothing Kabal can do that Raiden can't use the teleport to get around, so he just needs to use it patiently to get in and start his offense. Again, I think this is a 5-5.

Raiden has all the tools necessary to beat any character in the game. He has a solid poke tool via F2 3 and F2 4, he has a great whiff punisher via B3 1 2 (which can also be used to counter-poke after a blocked D3), and whatever the B3 1 2 won't catch, superman will. Teleport is pretty much the greatest counter-zoning and counter-poking option in the entire game, and just having it puts him at advantage against most of the cast. Against many characters, Raiden can honestly just sit at fullscreen once he has a life lead, and his opponent is forced to give chase; in the case of someone like Kenshi, Kitana, Mileena or Freddy, they can get blown up for attempting to zone him. Hell, even Kabal gets knicked by this. Bottom line: Raiden has everything he'd ever need to compete at the highest level. He's just all-around solid.
Dude Sonya/Raiden is fucked up.
 

NKZero

Noob
I feel like CSZ vs Ermac is not that bad. Ermac punishes DK's with full punish everytime. Oce C- Sub gets in, Ermac can have some trouble, but overall they even eachother out. I'd say its a 5-5, or maybe a little in Ermacs favor, as he can telly on reaction to ice ball and can effectivly keep Cyber out with push. This one is pretty much just about who hits who first. Not too many great Ermacs around to test it though.
Haha I was asking about CSZ-Raiden not Ermac! Thanks for the tips though :). So weird dude, two others this week have answered my post with something irrelevant. Na dude thanks anyways.
 

Death

Noob
For a team Id go with 2 characters. Anything more than that will hurt your main and you wont level him up as much as you would if you only had 2 characters. I noticed you liked Raiden and hes a really good main. But he has some tough MUs. The best alt who deals with his bad MUs that you listed is Kenshi.

Raiden/Kenshi team would be fucking sick.
 

NKZero

Noob
For a team Id go with 2 characters. Anything more than that will hurt your main and you wont level him up as much as you would if you only had 2 characters. I noticed you liked Raiden and hes a really good main. But he has some tough MUs. The best alt who deals with his bad MUs that you listed is Kenshi.

Raiden/Kenshi team would be fucking sick.
Agreed. Or Raiden and Kabal. Why does Sonya beat Raiden bad anyways? Also I refuse to believe Raiden is mid tier. To me he has always been top 4, 4th after Sonya, Kabal and Kenshi (not in that order). Teleport if used correctly is one of the best moves in the game, up there with ice clone
 

Death

Noob
Agreed. Or Raiden and Kabal. Why does Sonya beat Raiden bad anyways? Also I refuse to believe Raiden is mid tier. To me he has always been top 4, 4th after Sonya, Kabal and Kenshi (not in that order). Teleport if used correctly is one of the best moves in the game, up there with ice clone
I think Raiden is pretty overrated. I dont think hes top 10. Probably 11-12th. Sonya just has an answer for everything. EX Cartwheel his strings. 114 his teleport. If it doesnt hit its at least a block string. Can dive kick his whiffed moves. The best Raiden can do is superman a whiff d4 for 10% but Sonya is only throwing it out there if she knows its going to hit. Sonya can turtle Raiden just as good or if not better than Raiden can turtle Sonya. The MU is in Sonyas favor.
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Haha I was asking about CSZ-Raiden not Ermac! Thanks for the tips though :). So weird dude, two others this week have answered my post with something irrelevant. Na dude thanks anyways.
Oh 5-5. This match is nothing but Electric balls, Electric fly's, tele, Dive kicks and Ice parries. Most boring and annoying MU in the entire game lol.

Sorry for the time waster. Im gunna go take a bath with my toaster now.
 

NKZero

Noob
Oh 5-5. This match is nothing but Electric balls, Electric fly's, tele, Dive kicks and Ice parries. Most boring and annoying MU in the entire game lol.

Sorry for the time waster. Im gunna go take a bath with my toaster now.
:(. Nooo. thanks for the info anyways dude. Yeah and it seems this match might be 5-5 and no longer 6-4 CSZ. Just take an arrow to the knee instead.
 

NKZero

Noob
I think Raiden is pretty overrated. I dont think hes top 10. Probably 11-12th. Sonya just has an answer for everything. EX Cartwheel his strings. 114 his teleport. If it doesnt hit its at least a block string. Can dive kick his whiffed moves. The best Raiden can do is superman a whiff d4 for 10% but Sonya is only throwing it out there if she knows its going to hit. Sonya can turtle Raiden just as good or if not better than Raiden can turtle Sonya. The MU is in Sonyas favor.
Can Raiden not teleport the military stance mix-ups? I dunno much about them vs Raiden so just asking. Also I disagree man. Raiden is really good but just hard to master and lack of tools compared to Sonya, Kenshi, Smoke, Kabal etc. But the tools at his disposal are pretty damn good.
 
ive yet to see a convincing raiden yet, nonetheless i think hes strictly footsies and personally i never found the sonya matchup that bad wiht raiden however raidens offense is too bad sometimes, you have to grab a lot...


as far as counter-poking im sorry, teleport duration is 29 frames most pokes have aduration of either 20(d3) or 25 (d1) so the risk reward is meh anyways
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
So... Don't divekick?

Pig made this case to me when he claimed it was 6-4 in Cyber Sub's favor. He was absolutely right.
Well ya don't dive kick. But every now and then one will slip out that gets blocked, it happens. Full punish from anywhere.

He can keep CSZ out pretty well, and if Cyber does happen to get in, all it takes is a d3 or d4 and jump back, but hell, after a d4 Ermac can go in and pressure and try a mix up untill he can land a push and back into zoneing mode. I don't have loads of MU exp for this. But I dont think its all that bad.
 

CamRac

Noob
Overused: Cage, Cyrax

Underused: CSZ, Stryker, Nightwolf, Sheeva, Kenshi

Overrated: Jax

Underrated: Raiden, Ermac

I'd say get a team of 3, something like:
Kenshi/Ermac/Stryker (Zoner)
Nightwolf/CSZ (underused)
Raiden (balanced)
While I see the logic for having two characters (as that is how I've always composed my SF "teams" of), I think three or less would work for MK at this point for a multitude of reasons. Really, I've just got to play around with a few of the listed characters tonight and I should be one step closer to putting this ish in stone. I think Raiden is a definite now, though.

I'll report back in the morning, brethren.
 

Altaire

Noob
Well ya don't dive kick. But every now and then one will slip out that gets blocked, it happens. Full punish from anywhere.

He can keep CSZ out pretty well, and if Cyber does happen to get in, all it takes is a d3 or d4 and jump back, but hell, after a d4 Ermac can go in and pressure and try a mix up untill he can land a push and back into zoneing mode. I don't have loads of MU exp for this. But I dont think its all that bad.
Uh, no, he can't keep Cyber Sub out at all. That's the problem. Dash block to get in. You can punish a blocked push with a slide from around jump distance. Once you're in, you can just run all over him for free, and you really don't need to work to get there.

Cyber Sub beats Ermac 6-4, if not worse.
 

HGTV DrFlash44

Quan Cheese!!!
What I did was I would pick a different character every week to work on a little bit. If I liked the character I stuck with um. Some characters lasted longer then others. After going through about half the cast I found out that my main is quan chi. Now I can also play half of the cast semi-decently
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Uh, no, he can't keep Cyber Sub out at all. That's the problem. Dash block to get in. You can punish a blocked push with a slide from around jump distance. Once you're in, you can just run all over him for free, and you really don't need to work to get there.

Cyber Sub beats Ermac 6-4, if not worse.
Who do you get you Ermac MU exp from? Dash blocking in sounds fine on paper. But what about when Cyber does get in? Ermac can just poke out and at somepoint may be able to push or lift. Also, Ermac does have decent pressure. The Ermac I play the most pressures pretty damn well.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
But seriously though, I'll give Freddy a good run tonight and see how I feel. I've honestly been initially turned off by him just because he's not an "MK character." I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought that.
That is the exact reason I don't... and won't ever... play Freddy. lol
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
For real? I never thought I'd inspire someone to take an interest in a character:). That makes me really happy to hear, thanks for your kind words. You can add me on PSN, I'll gladly play anyone, my name is same as here.

Stryker's a solid character imo, decent zoning, decent pressure, he's not terrible like many seem to think.
LOL, the only people that think Stryker is shit are the ones who only played the nooby ones that just chuck grenades and shoot pistols the whole match. Stryker is better than people give him credit for, for sure.