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Kung Lao? Where dose he really Rank Now in the Tier List?.. Top players?

Strings whiffing on the low hit box characters is a problem but if they didnt whiff and hit low hit box characters than hed be the best player in the game. KL isnt designed to be a pressure machine like Cage.
Thats true, but I feel like they could at least have given him a slow string like 15 frames that hits mid. its just so disturbing that both 1 and 2 whiff, while he is able to use it normally against all the normal characters. I suggested nrs made 1 mid, but then again, people would jump in the Kl bandwagon and I wouldn't want that.
 
What does KL punish whiffed moves with? 21? Whenever i try to punish whiffed moves my 1 and 2 always dont go far enough.
Whiff punishing can be dangerous if you can't hitconfirm it, so I always go for 1, if youre 100% you can whiff punish it I would go for 2, its 7 frames after all.

Also 24spin has better range, I really think people dont use 24 spin enough because there are some ways kl can change his stance without your opponent knowing it.

A F0xy Grampa said:
All the low hitbox characters that can duck his strings have even more punishable strings than KL, so I dont get how being poked out of a string is bad, when KL can just block and spin all the characters, bar Cage (unless Cage doesnt confirm 11F1 on stand block).​
Sonya B21/114/21 vs Crouched KL? Spin​
Jax 12/F41 vs Crouched KL? Spin​
Sektor 12B1 vs Crouched KL? Spin, may be the only string but KL has alot of other advantages over Sektor​
Mileena is the only 1 that can really get underneath him, while at the same time having uninteruptable strings, but her strings suck ass anyway. Sonya having the same hitbox doesnt really matter, cause Sonya needs to D4 him to even get near him, hows she gonna d4 him when he's all over the screen every 2 seconds doing all sorts of crazy shit.​
KL beats Sonya since his spin beats her MS mixups after blockstrings all together, so the threat is always on the Sonya player. When people actually learn to play footsies properly they wont fear Sonya half as much​
Ok, I'll try harder foxy, thanks. I don't think jax is that much of a problem like I thought he would be. Its really just sonya right now that is a problem. If I lose to other characters but sonya right now, is because I get outplayed, but sonya just runs over me sometimes.

Thats why you want to master KL standing 2 and learn to hitconfirm 21212~spin. You should never spin out of pressure or anything always do standing 2. Its 7 frames and only 1 frame slower than spin. Spin is mainly used as an AA/cross ups and in combos nothing else. Any good KL player will not just throw it out. 2>Spin
Actually I think spin has a lot of use and is very different from 2 even though there is a 1 frame difference, that 1 frame difference makes a lot actually. because unlike 2, spin will beat pokes. Its so often when you play kung lao and you just KNOW they are gonna poke you, in that case you have to spin imo. there are a lot of mindgames going around the spin imo, which 2 can't provide you with.
 
Kung Lao 1.05 isn't meant to go careless rushdown mode. He's so mobile because he's supposed to control the space and punish the whiffs.

he never was imo, people not blocking 24 low hat made it look that way. lao is really not to blame for people getting ''rushdowned''. I didn't even play Kl at the time, but come on. aren't people basing their opinions about lao players too much because of the evo 24 low hat thing?
 

MK_Al

Noob
Lol funny to think a simple 24 low hat got him nerfed so badly.. D1 after the block maybe.
What really got him nerved was making the spin not safe on block. The 24 lowhat was bullshit anyway and definitely needed to go. But overall there's nothing wrong with nerving the character so that people actually have to think before throwing out a move.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Everyone feels this character isn't top tier anymore because we've all learned how to play against him in vanilla which was GOD. We've all learned EVERY hole he could possibly have in his game as well as played COUNTLESS Kung Lao's in our time...no? Every AVERAGE player knows how to beat KL now and that's why this game is a carousel in "who's top tier" because once someone brings a character to light (i.e. Jax, Smoke, Mileena, Shang etc.) we all jump to the conclusion that they're top tier and vice versa about characters who aren't played that often. Once we learn the MU we all question whether or not the character is top tier and because we don't see a character that often we assume (most of the time i.e. Sektor) that they aren't top tier.

Long story short, we've all learned EVERY hole in Lao's game from playing him so damn much which makes him seem lower than he should be. Lao is still top 5 and always will be with that spin, his GREAT mobility, meter building and footsies.
 
What really got him nerved was making the spin not safe on block. The 24 lowhat was bullshit anyway and definitely needed to go. But overall there's nothing wrong with nerving the character so that people actually have to think before throwing out a move.
first of all, why are people calling the spin ''safe''. second it was full combo punish like it is right now, maybe some characters are able to punish with higher damage but I don't think that is what hurts lao's game.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Who uses those strings with Sonya anyway? Every Sonya player starts Sonya's offense with d+4 xx MS f+1 which can never be interrupted.

I think Kung Lao loses to Cage and Sonya, which is a big deal because these two characters are turning out to be highly popular in tournaments. Kabal and Kitana are tough match ups, but it is debatable whether Kung Lao loses to them at the highest level of play. Having only 2-3 bad match ups would make him top 10.
If the Sonya player does nothing but D4MSf1 theyre never gonna beat a Lao player, he can just jump all over the place or spin like an idiot if he keeps getting D4'd, besides players should know the max distance of d4 by now anyway, stop getting tagged by it so much.

Theres no real reason for KL to lose to Sonya, thats me saying that from both characters perspectives.
 

MK_Al

Noob
first of all, why are people calling the spin ''safe''. second it was full combo punish like it is right now, maybe some characters are able to punish with higher damage but I don't think that is what hurts lao's game.
You're right, it wasn't safe, but still hard to punish for some characters. You can't deny this.
 
You're right, it wasn't safe, but still hard to punish for some characters. You can't deny this.
but how does that change anything big? we were talking about the nerfs and the spin nerf wasn't really a nerf, it was because people were bithcing and they made it easy mode to punish.
 

MK_Al

Noob
they made it easy mode to punish.
How is that not a nerf? . I get it, you say it was punishable before and it is punishable now, so basically nothing changed. But in real life, before the patch 1 out of 3 whiffed spins where punished, now it's 3/3. Thats gamechanging.
 

ZtrideRz

Noob
If the Sonya player does nothing but D4MSf1 theyre never gonna beat a Lao player, he can just jump all over the place or spin like an idiot if he keeps getting D4'd, besides players should know the max distance of d4 by now anyway, stop getting tagged by it so much.

Theres no real reason for KL to lose to Sonya, thats me saying that from both characters perspectives.
Except the hitbox advantage sonya has..
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
but how does that change anything big? we were talking about the nerfs and the spin nerf wasn't really a nerf, it was because people were bithcing and they made it easy mode to punish.
Easy mode? More like braindead. But otherwise yeah, the pushback was probably intended to be nothing more than an aesthetic thing, quite frankly, if there's characters that had limited means of punishing it, that's their problem. In essence, the lack of patching has been a blessing for the game, it's given everyone an incentive to truly analyze and study the metagame, that's what "nerfed" KL more than anything.

Besides, I swear the majority of this community hasn't played MK at a competent level prior to MKDA sometimes.. Try punishing KL's Spin with Jax in MK2 (MU wise, the best character in MK2) and choke hard, lol..
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
All the low hitbox characters that can duck his strings have even more punishable strings than KL, so I dont get how being poked out of a string is bad, when KL can just block and spin all the characters, bar Cage (unless Cage doesnt confirm 11F1 on stand block).

Sonya B21/114/21 vs Crouched KL? Spin
Jax 12/F41 vs Crouched KL? Spin
Sektor 12B1 vs Crouched KL? Spin, may be the only string but KL has alot of other advantages over Sektor

Mileena is the only 1 that can really get underneath him, while at the same time having uninteruptable strings, but her strings suck ass anyway. Sonya having the same hitbox doesnt really matter, cause Sonya needs to D4 him to even get near him, hows she gonna d4 him when he's all over the screen every 2 seconds doing all sorts of crazy shit.

KL beats Sonya since his spin beats her MS mixups after blockstrings all together, so the threat is always on the Sonya player. When people actually learn to play footsies properly they wont fear Sonya half as much
The 4 in Sektor's B3,4 also whiffs on KL, just wanted to throw that out there.
Man who even said he's a good counterpick for KL in the first place? Bet it was some desperate theorist fighter from the SZ forums..
 

Flagg

Noob
The 4 in Sektor's B3,4 also whiffs on KL, just wanted to throw that out there.
Man who even said he's a good counterpick for KL in the first place? Bet it was some desperate theorist fighter from the SZ forums..
Lol, i think its Kabal that Sektor is supposed to be a good counterpick for.

But yeah, KL is an awsesome character, probably top 5 and there is no debating that. I would say that Kabal, Cage, Sonya, KL are the best in the game. Number 5 could be claimed by Sektor, Skarlet, Kenshi....the list goes on.
 
How is that not a nerf? . I get it, you say it was punishable before and it is punishable now, so basically nothing changed. But in real life, before the patch 1 out of 3 whiffed spins where punished, now it's 3/3. Thats gamechanging.
you speak for yourself.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
I'm gonna have to say Kung Lao is not top 5 in my opinion, top 5 to me is reserved for the characters bullshit zoning/rushdown or characters high damaging resets, and such as Kabal, Cage, Cyrax, Smoke, ect.

Kung Lao is probably top 10 at least. He does have the best anti-air and x-ray in the game, and using these tools to the best of their ability can make him a very dangerous character. He is very mobile and can deal with zoners pretty well.

But, alot of people think KL is one of the best simply because he can spin pokes and punish with a full combo, but the thing is its all a guessing game. If you get lucky and guess right and spin when your opponent was going to try to poke you or something, than yeah you can punish them with a combo. But if they baited your spin and they block it or it whiffs, they can punish you with a full combo that is going to be even more damage you than you would have dealt to them if you would have hit confirmed the spin.

Bottom line is Kung Lao's spin is very risky, and although it can be one of the best moves in the game, it can also get you hurt and change the outcome of a match. KL also has a very hard time against heavy rushdown characters, such as Cage, Sonya, Jax, ect. This is why in my opinion being one of the only KL players out there anymore, I would put him top 10, not top 5.
 

HGTV DrFlash44

Quan Cheese!!!
I'm not sure cause he's around ten but then you add in the factor of absolutely destroying noob, sheeva, freddy, and kenshi
 

ZtrideRz

Noob
I'm gonna have to say Kung Lao is not top 5 in my opinion, top 5 to me is reserved for the characters bullshit zoning/rushdown or characters high damaging resets, and such as Kabal, Cage, Cyrax, Smoke, ect.

Kung Lao is probably top 10 at least. He does have the best anti-air and x-ray in the game, and using these tools to the best of their ability can make him a very dangerous character. He is very mobile and can deal with zoners pretty well.

But, alot of people think KL is one of the best simply because he can spin pokes and punish with a full combo, but the thing is its all a guessing game. If you get lucky and guess right and spin when your opponent was going to try to poke you or something, than yeah you can punish them with a combo. But if they baited your spin and they block it or it whiffs, they can punish you with a full combo that is going to be even more damage you than you would have dealt to them if you would have hit confirmed the spin.

Bottom line is Kung Lao's spin is very risky, and although it can be one of the best moves in the game, it can also get you hurt and change the outcome of a match. KL also has a very hard time against heavy rushdown characters, such as Cage, Sonya, Jax, ect. This is why in my opinion being one of the only KL players out there anymore, I would put him top 10, not top 5.
Thank you for repeating everything I said about kung laos spin.. its as dangerous to himself as it is the opponent.. As for Spining pokes good luck doing that on reaction. Would you agree with 7th in the tier list FK?
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Yeah KL being top 5 and doing well vs low hitbox characters is really all theory now. When its actually proven then we can all talk about it.
How is it theory exactly? I rarely lose to Sonya/Jax/Sektor players as Lao, so, so far I'm proving my 'theory' correct.

I'm gonna have to say Kung Lao is not top 5 in my opinion, top 5 to me is reserved for the characters bullshit zoning/rushdown or characters high damaging resets, and such as Kabal, Cage, Cyrax, Smoke, ect.

Kung Lao is probably top 10 at least. He does have the best anti-air and x-ray in the game, and using these tools to the best of their ability can make him a very dangerous character. He is very mobile and can deal with zoners pretty well.

But, alot of people think KL is one of the best simply because he can spin pokes and punish with a full combo, but the thing is its all a guessing game. If you get lucky and guess right and spin when your opponent was going to try to poke you or something, than yeah you can punish them with a combo. But if they baited your spin and they block it or it whiffs, they can punish you with a full combo that is going to be even more damage you than you would have dealt to them if you would have hit confirmed the spin.

Bottom line is Kung Lao's spin is very risky, and although it can be one of the best moves in the game, it can also get you hurt and change the outcome of a match. KL also has a very hard time against heavy rushdown characters, such as Cage, Sonya, Jax, ect. This is why in my opinion being one of the only KL players out there anymore, I would put him top 10, not top 5.
Any time you think they're gonna block anticipating a spin just do 2 1