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Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
Hello guys, I know this might not be taken seriously but here goes: There is "new" tech out for smoke that kind of makes him broken. Those are his resets and now his invisibility shit where he cancel's an ex parry with a back dash and gets a 30+ % combo off ANY hit AND remains invisible for the rest of the match. Nothing can hit him out of the invisibility, not even x-rays, up to this moment. Some people want him banned. Some people want this shit to be patched out. I don't know what influence we have on NRS but if any THIS IS THE TIME TO PLEAD BEG ASK FOR A REBALANCING OF SUB-ZERO AND OTHER CHARACTERS TOO. We just have to make our case strong so that NRS can see that Sub-zero has been weakened too damn much. I would ask that the standing 2 would hit crouching/crouch-blocking low-hitbox characters. Maybe that the slide go under duck-able projectiles like it's supposed to do (look at the Sonya match up this won't be OP for Sub-Zero). I'm not asking for buffs but at-least too rebalance that shit. Look what happened with street fighter AE 2012. The community bitched and cried but finally after everybody complained shit got done. NRS worked closely with the fighting game community before so if there is a chance off this happening we should fight for it. This IS OUR GAME isn't it? Greetings and please post your opinions not only for Sub but also for the rest of the cast.
 

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
greeneless, it's not about me it's about fixing this game. I play sub, kano and liu. I love this game but there are issues that hold this game back from being great. If NRS is going by a miracle to patch this game one last time maybe they can do so with some better input if any from the FGC. That's all I'm saying. We already have a NO for an answer, we have to work for a Yes!
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Honestly, tell me what Sub Zero needs? Because on paper he has it all.

Armor, projectile that when hit grants combo, anti-rush down tool with ice clone (one of the best non-ex moves in the game) which can be used as a rush down tool as well, one of if not the best d4, one of if not the best corner pressure, amazing anti-air and anti-cross up string that leads into combo, fast start up moves for easy punishing windows.

Tell me now, what else would you Sub Zero players want? Because as a Sektor player I would love the following from you:
armor, d4, anti-cross up, anti-rush down tool

And don't give me the whole "the first hit of my string whiffs!" bullshit. The first 2 hits of my strings whiff which lead to a full combo punish, not just on low hit box characters. All this and I don't cry for buffs. Playing Sub Zero and complaining is so First World Problems.
 

Deity

Noob
Honestly, tell me what Sub Zero needs? Because on paper he has it all.

Armor, projectile that when hit grants combo, anti-rush down tool with ice clone (one of the best non-ex moves in the game) which can be used as a rush down tool as well, one of if not the best d4, one of if not the best corner pressure, amazing anti-air and anti-cross up string that leads into combo, fast start up moves for easy punishing windows.

Tell me now, what else would you Sub Zero players want? Because as a Sektor player I would love the following from you:
armor, d4, anti-cross up, anti-rush down tool

And don't give me the whole "the first hit of my string whiffs!" bullshit. The first 2 hits of my strings whiff which lead to a full combo punish, not just on low hit box characters. All this and I don't cry for buffs. Playing Sub Zero and complaining is so First World Problems.
Ice clone should move around and be able to throw ice balls. He should also have a safe dive kick that freezes on hit. Sounds fair to me.
 

Buffalo

Bison of Beat Downs
Honestly, tell me what Sub Zero needs? Because on paper he has it all.

Armor, projectile that when hit grants combo, anti-rush down tool with ice clone (one of the best non-ex moves in the game) which can be used as a rush down tool as well, one of if not the best d4, one of if not the best corner pressure, amazing anti-air and anti-cross up string that leads into combo, fast start up moves for easy punishing windows.

Tell me now, what else would you Sub Zero players want? Because as a Sektor player I would love the following from you:
armor, d4, anti-cross up, anti-rush down tool

And don't give me the whole "the first hit of my string whiffs!" bullshit. The first 2 hits of my strings whiff which lead to a full combo punish, not just on low hit box characters. All this and I don't cry for buffs. Playing Sub Zero and complaining is so First World Problems.
Complaining about a video game in general is so First World Problems.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Honestly, tell me what Sub Zero needs? Because on paper he has it all.

Armor, projectile that when hit grants combo, anti-rush down tool with ice clone (one of the best non-ex moves in the game) which can be used as a rush down tool as well, one of if not the best d4, one of if not the best corner pressure, amazing anti-air and anti-cross up string that leads into combo, fast start up moves for easy punishing windows.

Tell me now, what else would you Sub Zero players want? Because as a Sektor player I would love the following from you:
armor, d4, anti-cross up, anti-rush down tool

And don't give me the whole "the first hit of my string whiffs!" bullshit. The first 2 hits of my strings whiff which lead to a full combo punish, not just on low hit box characters. All this and I don't cry for buffs. Playing Sub Zero and complaining is so First World Problems.
Fixes, man, fixes. If 2 hits mid, that means it should hit characters in a crouch state, regardless. Slide should go under all duckable projectiles. No idea why it doesn't (from a balance point of view). No idea why 2 hits some characters in a crouch animation and not others (from a balance point of view). Both have a technical explanation, but I haven't seen one reason offered for why those things are te way they are.

I agree with you Sub-Zero is decent. I have always maintained that Sub-Zero is a decent character and the people i play with who play him think the same thing, too. I don't actually want him to be top tier, I just want him to make sense, but there are ways around these problems I describe, so it's not the end of the world for me if they don't address some of his issues. I am reminded of what Jay said to me about Cyber Sub. Cyber Sub has lots of shitty things about him but because of the work he's put into the character, he has all manner of bomb setups and genuinely good stuff that people would not have thought possible with that character.

Sub players need the same mentality towards this character more than anything else. That is something I 100% agree with. In my mind, he's more than viable, he's just been short on setups for too long because we all stopped being creative with the character.
 

Fatality_check

Never Gonna Give
I wouldn't be distraught if he didn't get anything. But 2 hitting everyone crouched would be lush. I'd probably have that over sliding under projectiles.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
I agree he probably won't get anything. I was talking with a buddy of mine, and he mentioned it would
be cool if ice puddle were faster frames and / or cancelable....I don't know how practical that is or worth it, I'm not holding my breath....I still think sub is fun to play anyhow
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I agree he probably won't get anything. I was talking with a buddy of mine, and he mentioned it would
be cool if ice puddle were faster frames and / or cancelable....I don't know how practical that is or worth it, I'm not holding my breath....I still think sub is fun to play anyhow
Cancelable ice puddle would lead to some dirty setups. 22, freeze, jip b12, icepuddle cancel, crossover jip, etc. 21, ice puddle cancel, block wakeup, full combo punish, lol.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
I agree he probably won't get anything. I was talking with a buddy of mine, and he mentioned it would
be cool if ice puddle were faster frames and / or cancelable....I don't know how practical that is or worth it, I'm not holding my breath....I still think sub is fun to play anyhow
Cancelable ice puddle would lead to some dirty setups. 22, freeze, jip b12, icepuddle cancel, crossover jip, etc. 21, ice puddle cancel, block wakeup, full combo punish, lol.
He already has a cancel move b2? I don't understand why people ask for this, there's already set ups for this move, just because they aren't guaranteed doesn't mean the move doesn't work. We have chose to use him KNOWING Sub has these problems so now we need to deal with it and level up our character in other ways than asking NRS to buff our character.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Yeah... I played all iterations of him as well.... and NRS has slowly made him the dinosaur he is... extinct.

again... 2 things... 1) 2 hit registers as a high and hits all crouching states and 2) Faster dash... on the lvl of AT LEAST Sektor.

thats it. Sub was already pretty slow... dash nerf made him a slug. He hits like a pussy... so let him at least be a fast pussy.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
Yeah... I played all iterations of him as well.... and NRS has slowly made him the dinosaur he is... extinct.

again... 2 things... 1) 2 hit registers as a high and hits all crouching states and 2) Faster dash... on the lvl of AT LEAST Sektor.

thats it. Sub was already pretty slow... dash nerf made him a slug. He hits like a pussy... so let him at least be a fast pussy.
I'd rather him hit like a man since he has that big ass hit box anyways. But a pussy to the face can still hurt if thrusted right.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
When I "chose" to use Subzero he was a different character in a much different game, and for that NRS is at least partly responsible.
Didn't exactly word that right...was just waking up. From a personal stand point that applies to me. I meant most of you have stuck with him regardless of what's happened to him. Does he need things? Yes, but we're aware of this and still play him so let's hope for the best from NRS and until then level him up the best we can.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Because as a Sektor player I would love the following from you:
armor, d4, anti-cross up, anti-rush down tool.
See now this is what I love to see, sharing is caring, one hand washes the other, you scratch my back and Il scratch yours. So listen Swifty as long as your gonna borrow those things from us you wouldnt mind sharing with us your safe EX wakeup attack, your zone-tastic missles, that great jump in stopping flame thrower and maybe that delightful mid poke with all that pushback that has range from almost halfway across the screen, F+2 I think it is? Cmon whaddya say? In the spirit of sharing? :)
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
He already has a cancel move b2? I don't understand why people ask for this, there's already set ups for this move, just because they aren't guaranteed doesn't mean the move doesn't work. We have chose to use him KNOWING Sub has these problems so now we need to deal with it and level up our character in other ways than asking NRS to buff our character.
I know this, I was just mentioning what my friend had told me. I've played sub since the beginning of the game, and ya he lost his reset, he can't move that fast, but that hasn't stopped me from playing him. One of the only times I get frustrated w his lack of mobility is with Sindel....Gawd I hate that bitch....
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
If SZ were to get buffed, this is what I'd like:

- 1,3 hitconfirmable into freeze, not just ExFreeze
- 2 mid hitting on everybody
- 1,3 F4 and 3F4 cancelable into clone
- reduce freeze time but increase startup of ice ball
- Slide under high projectiles
 

PoliceBrutality

Let's go green!!!!
I honestly think you guys are asking for too much. Just find a way to work around his problems or 2,2 hitting low hitbox. I honestly dont understand why ppl keep on saying sub is not a good character or not viable. Just keep at it guys, im sure you will find a way. Just because Tom pointed 2,2 weaknesses doesn't mean it's the end of sub. My character has been deem bottom 5 by most of the community, but I still think there are ways around his 90% weaknesses.

C'mon, you sub players have good rush down and control the pace of the match. I would love to have at least 1/3 of what sub has. I know what im about to say sound simple and most likely have been said before, but you guys just need to change your playstyle a bit. If the rushdown method doesnt work, guess what, try to change the formula. Most of stryker's damage comes from tricks and standing 4 from playing footsies against rushdown chars.Shoot I have some matchup were I cant even pull my gun out, and we all know stryker is supposed to be a zoner.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys are missing something. It's there, im sure of it. And so what sub wins a match only by low pokes or punishment. That makes the character and the game more interesting in my opinion. The char just cant rely on one formula alone.

Side note: Please don't flame me for it lol. If anyone can understand your frustration(s), trust me it will be me lol